3 ms·

My real goal is zoning. God speed to you sir! What is your goal wrt zoning?

tptacek 2y ago
The categorical elimination of single-family zoning along with any building envelope restrictions that would make as-of-right 3-flats uneconomical.
- pchristensen 2y ago
  That would be an outstanding outcome! Is this just for Oak Park, or beyond?
  - tptacek 2y ago
    You'd hope that Oak Park, Evanston, Wilmette, and then Berwyn and Schaumburg could get this done, and then your next step would be either Chicago (tough because of aldermanic structure) or statewide, the way California did. Either way: you start in one municipality and work from there. It helps that zoning matters more in Oak Park (and Evanston) than almost anywhere else in Chicagoland.
    - pchristensen 2y ago
      Why does zoning matter more in Oak Park and Evanston? High demand from being on the El and close to Chicago?
      - tptacek 2y ago
        Yep. Historically both of these places basically exist to concentrate the interests of the upper middle class and to reinforce segregation. They're both basically Chicago but with a better funded school system (because lawyers and doctors get to funnel all their property taxes into the school down the street from them), which makes them highly desirable.
    - ChrisBland 2y ago
      There is no way you get Wilmette to change zoning. They've fought with Small Cheval about the size of their sign for like 9 months. I doubt you'd get any village in the NT district to rezone - the Optima project was pulling teeth, everyone is worried about overcrowding NT, which as a single HS is pretty packed now
      - tptacek 2y ago
        The whole project is going to take many years. Even if we fix Oak Park zoning in the coming year, it'll still be years before anything significant gets built, and years past that for us to serve as a test case.
      - HDThoreaun 2y ago
        New Trier can just build another campus like they did for freshmen.
        tatersolid 2y ago
        Where exactly? Land on the north shore isn’t empty nor is it cheap.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
- Spivak 2y ago
  It's might actually be easier to win the economics battle by chipping away at restrictions on taller buildings. The builders in my area are copy/pasting a 3-flat design all over the place but it requires bargain-basement land prices (literally building on former toxic waste dumps) or money from the township because 3-flats make you have to build wide.
  - tptacek 2y ago
    The muni I live in is very constrained (we're just 4 square miles, right on the border of the west side of Chicago) and our land is overwhelmingly SFZ, so most of the ballgame is getting SFZ lots opened up. The emerging consensus is towards "missing middle" housing, which is 2-40 units (but really, a medium term sweet spot in the teens), where you're talking about buildings spanning multiple lots. That very little can economically be built on existing SFZ lots even with relaxed zoning is actually a feature, not a bug, for getting this done. People want change to be slow. At least to begin with, it's better strategically if it takes a couple years and gradual tweaking to make lots of building happen.
    - cozzyd 2y ago
      Kam Buckner is trying to get something passed at the state level (but wouldn't apply to Oak Park. https://ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocNum=3288&GAID=18&DocTypeID=HB&LegId=161778&SessionID=114&GA=104 https://ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocNum=3288&GAID... )
- btucker 2y ago
  A step in the right direction last week for the largest upzoning effort in the city! https://archive.is/QuOcJ https://archive.is/QuOcJ Of course the a vocal minority is fuming about higher density.
- fc417fc802 2y ago
  Rather than the complete elimination of single family (and by extension even larger lots) I feel like it ought to follow something resembling an iterated 80/20 rule out to huge rural lots at the far end. Notice that this would imply a plurality of the land being zoned for the highest density at any given time. The thing that really kills density in most cases is the height restrictions. A lot of the upzoning in my area has resulted in ugly, wall-to-wall low-single-digit floor count buildings with near zero setback. It's better than single family but it isn't particularly dense and it's a huge step backwards aesthetically.

The categorical elimination of single-family zoning along with any building envelope restrictions that would make as-of-right 3-flats uneconomical.

pchristensen 2y ago
That would be an outstanding outcome! Is this just for Oak Park, or beyond?
- tptacek 2y ago
  You'd hope that Oak Park, Evanston, Wilmette, and then Berwyn and Schaumburg could get this done, and then your next step would be either Chicago (tough because of aldermanic structure) or statewide, the way California did. Either way: you start in one municipality and work from there. It helps that zoning matters more in Oak Park (and Evanston) than almost anywhere else in Chicagoland.
  - pchristensen 2y ago
    Why does zoning matter more in Oak Park and Evanston? High demand from being on the El and close to Chicago?
    - tptacek 2y ago
      Yep. Historically both of these places basically exist to concentrate the interests of the upper middle class and to reinforce segregation. They're both basically Chicago but with a better funded school system (because lawyers and doctors get to funnel all their property taxes into the school down the street from them), which makes them highly desirable.
  - ChrisBland 2y ago
    There is no way you get Wilmette to change zoning. They've fought with Small Cheval about the size of their sign for like 9 months. I doubt you'd get any village in the NT district to rezone - the Optima project was pulling teeth, everyone is worried about overcrowding NT, which as a single HS is pretty packed now
    - tptacek 2y ago
      The whole project is going to take many years. Even if we fix Oak Park zoning in the coming year, it'll still be years before anything significant gets built, and years past that for us to serve as a test case.
    - HDThoreaun 2y ago
      New Trier can just build another campus like they did for freshmen.
      - tatersolid 2y ago
        Where exactly? Land on the north shore isn’t empty nor is it cheap.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
Spivak 2y ago
It's might actually be easier to win the economics battle by chipping away at restrictions on taller buildings. The builders in my area are copy/pasting a 3-flat design all over the place but it requires bargain-basement land prices (literally building on former toxic waste dumps) or money from the township because 3-flats make you have to build wide.
- tptacek 2y ago
  The muni I live in is very constrained (we're just 4 square miles, right on the border of the west side of Chicago) and our land is overwhelmingly SFZ, so most of the ballgame is getting SFZ lots opened up. The emerging consensus is towards "missing middle" housing, which is 2-40 units (but really, a medium term sweet spot in the teens), where you're talking about buildings spanning multiple lots. That very little can economically be built on existing SFZ lots even with relaxed zoning is actually a feature, not a bug, for getting this done. People want change to be slow. At least to begin with, it's better strategically if it takes a couple years and gradual tweaking to make lots of building happen.
  - cozzyd 2y ago
    Kam Buckner is trying to get something passed at the state level (but wouldn't apply to Oak Park. https://ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocNum=3288&GAID=18&DocTypeID=HB&LegId=161778&SessionID=114&GA=104 https://ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocNum=3288&GAID... )
btucker 2y ago
A step in the right direction last week for the largest upzoning effort in the city! https://archive.is/QuOcJ https://archive.is/QuOcJ Of course the a vocal minority is fuming about higher density.
fc417fc802 2y ago
Rather than the complete elimination of single family (and by extension even larger lots) I feel like it ought to follow something resembling an iterated 80/20 rule out to huge rural lots at the far end. Notice that this would imply a plurality of the land being zoned for the highest density at any given time. The thing that really kills density in most cases is the height restrictions. A lot of the upzoning in my area has resulted in ugly, wall-to-wall low-single-digit floor count buildings with near zero setback. It's better than single family but it isn't particularly dense and it's a huge step backwards aesthetically.