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I don't get the negativity on HN for this project. This team is trying to disrupt a truly oligopolist market - I really hope they do it. Give them a break on

by mtkd 14y ago

I don't get the negativity on HN for this project. This team is trying to disrupt a truly oligopolist market - I really hope they do it. Give them a break on marketing announcement dissection at least until you see what they build.

jeremyarussell 14y ago
Once a few people make the Ouya exclusives people will start singing a different tune, a lot of the hype has been shot down with the logic that it's just a smartphone on a big screen, to me it's an entirely new platform waiting for someone to really make good use of it. The best part is in a few years when the Ouya exclusives are going for round two on the next gen Ouya, people will get to finally play those great Ouya games on their smart phones. (Because who knows, maybe it'll be all funny and backwards, I've seen much stranger things)
- bonch 14y ago
  You've made quite a few large assumptions about the future--that there will be Ouya exclusives, that the console will last "a few years", that there will be a "next gen Ouya". This sort of pie-in-the-sky hype is exactly what people don't like about this project. It's that classic "??? Profit" joke realized as a Kickstarter project.
mrcharles 14y ago
Actually, the problem is that the market they are disrupting... doesn't exist. There's a mistaken idea in the public right now that Ouya can (or will) replace dedicated consoles. That's not even remotely true. The system simply does not have the power to be that device in your home. Gamers seem to have backed this based on an idea that it's a $100 full fledged console. It is not. It is, at best, a tablet that hooks up to your tv and has a controller. At least as far as the hardware is concerned. On top of that, their release timelines aren't even remotely realistic. March? They don't even have their online store prototyped yet. They have some UI mockups and that's it. Launching in March? Yeah right. And then there's the issue with allowing the console to be fully open, using a hardware platform that is already having so many issues with piracy that developers are slowly being forced to release their games for free and supported with ads to make any money. I have no doubt that if this system ever materializes, it will make an impact, but it's a long stretch to think you'll be taking delivery of this system in March and playing Final Fantasy 3 on it.
- pflats 14y ago
  Some relevant quotes from the Ouya devs in Ben Kuchera's article[1]: "That [controller] design is not final," I was told. "We are in a prototype phase and exploring several options." "We know the hardware specifications, and are working with electrical and mechanical engineers to test the performance of the hardware. We have begun work on the user interface and software. We’ll pull all these pieces together and test how they fit, while we finalize the product." It reminds me of that Kickstarter flashlight that's been in development for over a year[2]: they're not quite saying how little is done, and they'll be in over their head in no time. To me, every bit of marketing copy from Ouya seems willfully misleading. [1] http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/the-reality-of-the-ouya-console-doesnt-match-the-hype-why-you-should-be-ske http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/the-reality... [2] http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/527051507/hexbright-an-open-source-light/posts http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/527051507/hexbright-an-o...
- danso 14y ago
  I've backed 3 kickstarter real-world objects - the Cosmonaut stylus, the Elevation Dock (the first $1M+ project), and U.S. made underwear. The Cosmonaut stylus was two months late and blew past its touted it'll-be-a-great-Christmas-gift deadline. The Elevation Dock is 4 months late and counting. Even the underwear looks like it'll be about 3 months late. And these were projects for things that are "dumb" objects. I don't expect the Ouya to be on time at all.
  - angryasian 14y ago
    sidenote: what was your overall satisfaction with what was delivered , and did it live up to expectations. I just find it hard to understand that people want to buy products on just a guarantee from a team, without reading any type of real world reviews from other people
    - danso 14y ago
      Well, the only thing that's been delivered that I've bought is the Cosmonaut. I guess it's OK...I've never been too satisfied with iPAd styluses so it lived up to that low bar...but I also paid significantly lower than market price for it. I prefer more precise styluses, after using it.
cooldeal 14y ago
First, I am sure almost everyone here wants Ouya to succeed. I think some are very concerned with the hand waving away of real issues in all the hype surrounding this, which rings alarm bells and raises red flags reminiscent of other failed projects in the past. For example, this particular news update about FF is misleading, as the version they're proclaiming to be exclusive is already available on iOS in the US(and can be played on a TV too), so they're adding caveats such as "on a console on the TV in the US". A significant portion of the Kickstarter audience may not be knowing the above and might think that this is a big exclusive coming to the platform. The utter hype surrounding this is immense, and not much is ready. While this does not mean that they're going to fail, it sure is hard to execute and they need to show more before hyping the platform to raise even more money from the ordinary users.
- MaxGabriel 14y ago
  If its anything like FFTactics for iOS, using a controller will be huge. When games aren't designed for touch controls, and are poorly ported, they might as well not even exist on the platform. Edit: There is more detail on this below, with some contrasting views for FF3, which I've never played.
- hammersend 14y ago
  Considering FF3 is available for download both on the iOS and the Android app stores I'd say it is extremely unlikely that most of the people who pitched in on kickstarter and actually care about Squenix games think it is exclusive. You're nitpicking marketing literature and there aren't even any real nits to pick. To use an analogy you don't expect Nissan to be sure to point out that Ford, Chevrolet, and Dodge have better towing capacity than the next Titan. That's not their job and it isn't misleading at all.
ghshephard 14y ago
If there was ever a Kickstarter project (And I say this as a backer of several kick starters, check my ID) - that was destined to failure, this is it. Unrealistic schedules, overhyped expectations, poor communication. Of course we'd all love to see something like this happen, but disruption has to happen more organically. You can't just announce that you are going to build a competitive console in eight months. These things take years - particularly given all of the obstacles (Store, Controller, Development Platform, DRM) that exist. Most of the kick starters that I find are successful, are those which _already_ have a fully functioning prototype that people are able to use, work, play with - and the kickstarter is something that lets them do this at scale. The kick starters that are for the R&D/Development almost never hit their targets - even for projects much less aggressive than this one. Plus - the budget is tiny for all these sub-projects, particularly because they are going to have to pay for all these consoles out of it. It's a train wreck in the offing.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- slurgfest 14y ago
  You may be right that Ouya is destined for failure. But (and I say this thinking about things other than Ouya) a game platform does not need all the things you list at the outset. That's like saying you need to create an EA in order to make games. If you can put together pieces to make hardware that will run a game successfully, you can have a start. There is a vast gulf between homebrew and EA which is not very well exploited commercially.
  - ghshephard 14y ago
    I _completely_ agree with you - and I wish Ouya had been a lot more humble about what they were trying to accomplish. Sure, they wouldn't have gotten $5mm+ in funding, but, at the same time, they would have had a much greater chance in delivering what they were trying to accomplish. Heck, just having a controller working in 8 months would have been a huge victory, controller + API + console in 8 months is what I would have targeted. Six months after that a developer platform. Six months after that a Downloadable (free) store. Six months after that a Store-for-Pay. And Six-months after that some AAA games available, like Minecraft or FF7. These are realistic goals, and would have avoid the certain disappointment when in March, Ouya doesn't have Quality Console+Controller+Store+Free-Demos+AAA Games. Which, alas, I guarantee you it really, really won't.
bonch 14y ago
If Ouya is supposed to be a medium for indie game developers, that medium already exists with Android and iOS app stores, and arguably Steam as well, so there really isn't anything to disrupt. If it ever comes out, it's likely just going to be a piracy console.
zokier 14y ago
If it were to ship with GNU/Linux (like Debian or Ubuntu) and run Android stuff via something like Alien Dalvik, then I'd be much more interested. I can't get really excited about yet another android box, even if it had slightly unconventional form-factor.

by mtkd 14y ago

jeremyarussell 14y ago

Once a few people make the Ouya exclusives people will start singing a different tune, a lot of the hype has been shot down with the logic that it's just a smartphone on a big screen, to me it's an entirely new platform waiting for someone to really make good use of it. The best part is in a few years when the Ouya exclusives are going for round two on the next gen Ouya, people will get to finally play those great Ouya games on their smart phones. (Because who knows, maybe it'll be all funny and backwards, I've seen much stranger things)

bonch 14y ago
You've made quite a few large assumptions about the future--that there will be Ouya exclusives, that the console will last "a few years", that there will be a "next gen Ouya". This sort of pie-in-the-sky hype is exactly what people don't like about this project. It's that classic "??? Profit" joke realized as a Kickstarter project.

mrcharles 14y ago

Actually, the problem is that the market they are disrupting... doesn't exist. There's a mistaken idea in the public right now that Ouya can (or will) replace dedicated consoles. That's not even remotely true. The system simply does not have the power to be that device in your home. Gamers seem to have backed this based on an idea that it's a $100 full fledged console. It is not. It is, at best, a tablet that hooks up to your tv and has a controller. At least as far as the hardware is concerned. On top of that, their release timelines aren't even remotely realistic. March? They don't even have their online store prototyped yet. They have some UI mockups and that's it. Launching in March? Yeah right. And then there's the issue with allowing the console to be fully open, using a hardware platform that is already having so many issues with piracy that developers are slowly being forced to release their games for free and supported with ads to make any money. I have no doubt that if this system ever materializes, it will make an impact, but it's a long stretch to think you'll be taking delivery of this system in March and playing Final Fantasy 3 on it.

pflats 14y ago
Some relevant quotes from the Ouya devs in Ben Kuchera's article[1]: "That [controller] design is not final," I was told. "We are in a prototype phase and exploring several options." "We know the hardware specifications, and are working with electrical and mechanical engineers to test the performance of the hardware. We have begun work on the user interface and software. We’ll pull all these pieces together and test how they fit, while we finalize the product." It reminds me of that Kickstarter flashlight that's been in development for over a year[2]: they're not quite saying how little is done, and they'll be in over their head in no time. To me, every bit of marketing copy from Ouya seems willfully misleading. [1] http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/the-reality-of-the-ouya-console-doesnt-match-the-hype-why-you-should-be-ske http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/the-reality... [2] http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/527051507/hexbright-an-open-source-light/posts http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/527051507/hexbright-an-o...
danso 14y ago
I've backed 3 kickstarter real-world objects - the Cosmonaut stylus, the Elevation Dock (the first $1M+ project), and U.S. made underwear. The Cosmonaut stylus was two months late and blew past its touted it'll-be-a-great-Christmas-gift deadline. The Elevation Dock is 4 months late and counting. Even the underwear looks like it'll be about 3 months late. And these were projects for things that are "dumb" objects. I don't expect the Ouya to be on time at all.
- angryasian 14y ago
  sidenote: what was your overall satisfaction with what was delivered , and did it live up to expectations. I just find it hard to understand that people want to buy products on just a guarantee from a team, without reading any type of real world reviews from other people
  - danso 14y ago
    Well, the only thing that's been delivered that I've bought is the Cosmonaut. I guess it's OK...I've never been too satisfied with iPAd styluses so it lived up to that low bar...but I also paid significantly lower than market price for it. I prefer more precise styluses, after using it.

cooldeal 14y ago

First, I am sure almost everyone here wants Ouya to succeed. I think some are very concerned with the hand waving away of real issues in all the hype surrounding this, which rings alarm bells and raises red flags reminiscent of other failed projects in the past. For example, this particular news update about FF is misleading, as the version they're proclaiming to be exclusive is already available on iOS in the US(and can be played on a TV too), so they're adding caveats such as "on a console on the TV in the US". A significant portion of the Kickstarter audience may not be knowing the above and might think that this is a big exclusive coming to the platform. The utter hype surrounding this is immense, and not much is ready. While this does not mean that they're going to fail, it sure is hard to execute and they need to show more before hyping the platform to raise even more money from the ordinary users.

MaxGabriel 14y ago
If its anything like FFTactics for iOS, using a controller will be huge. When games aren't designed for touch controls, and are poorly ported, they might as well not even exist on the platform. Edit: There is more detail on this below, with some contrasting views for FF3, which I've never played.
hammersend 14y ago
Considering FF3 is available for download both on the iOS and the Android app stores I'd say it is extremely unlikely that most of the people who pitched in on kickstarter and actually care about Squenix games think it is exclusive. You're nitpicking marketing literature and there aren't even any real nits to pick. To use an analogy you don't expect Nissan to be sure to point out that Ford, Chevrolet, and Dodge have better towing capacity than the next Titan. That's not their job and it isn't misleading at all.

ghshephard 14y ago

If there was ever a Kickstarter project (And I say this as a backer of several kick starters, check my ID) - that was destined to failure, this is it. Unrealistic schedules, overhyped expectations, poor communication. Of course we'd all love to see something like this happen, but disruption has to happen more organically. You can't just announce that you are going to build a competitive console in eight months. These things take years - particularly given all of the obstacles (Store, Controller, Development Platform, DRM) that exist. Most of the kick starters that I find are successful, are those which _already_ have a fully functioning prototype that people are able to use, work, play with - and the kickstarter is something that lets them do this at scale. The kick starters that are for the R&D/Development almost never hit their targets - even for projects much less aggressive than this one. Plus - the budget is tiny for all these sub-projects, particularly because they are going to have to pay for all these consoles out of it. It's a train wreck in the offing.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
slurgfest 14y ago
You may be right that Ouya is destined for failure. But (and I say this thinking about things other than Ouya) a game platform does not need all the things you list at the outset. That's like saying you need to create an EA in order to make games. If you can put together pieces to make hardware that will run a game successfully, you can have a start. There is a vast gulf between homebrew and EA which is not very well exploited commercially.
- ghshephard 14y ago
  I _completely_ agree with you - and I wish Ouya had been a lot more humble about what they were trying to accomplish. Sure, they wouldn't have gotten $5mm+ in funding, but, at the same time, they would have had a much greater chance in delivering what they were trying to accomplish. Heck, just having a controller working in 8 months would have been a huge victory, controller + API + console in 8 months is what I would have targeted. Six months after that a developer platform. Six months after that a Downloadable (free) store. Six months after that a Store-for-Pay. And Six-months after that some AAA games available, like Minecraft or FF7. These are realistic goals, and would have avoid the certain disappointment when in March, Ouya doesn't have Quality Console+Controller+Store+Free-Demos+AAA Games. Which, alas, I guarantee you it really, really won't.

bonch 14y ago

If Ouya is supposed to be a medium for indie game developers, that medium already exists with Android and iOS app stores, and arguably Steam as well, so there really isn't anything to disrupt. If it ever comes out, it's likely just going to be a piracy console.

zokier 14y ago

If it were to ship with GNU/Linux (like Debian or Ubuntu) and run Android stuff via something like Alien Dalvik, then I'd be much more interested. I can't get really excited about yet another android box, even if it had slightly unconventional form-factor.