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> where the factories simply follow the orders I seem to remember some person using this argument. I think it's called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_o

> where the factories simply follow the orders I seem to remember some person using this argument. I think it's called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_orders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_orders

CamperBob2 2y ago
That's kind of outrageous, like the common trope of comparing workers to "slaves." Lot of privilege on display here. There are still a few Holocaust survivors left. Go ask some of them how their experience compares to that of factory workers who can, ultimately, walk out the door anytime they want.
- Spivak 2y ago
  You do get that The Nuremberg Defense has meaning outside the holocaust right? It's the name for when someone does something unethical/immoral with the justification that they were just following orders or just responding to the incentives they were given. There are a number of solutions to this problem that exist various places, militaries typically empower officers to disobey orders, professionals use licensure to uphold moral and ethical standards, whistleblower laws provide financial incentives the other way, unions can flex on immoral behavior. I don't believe anyone is arguing the two situations are comparable outside of the fact the defense of the behavior follows the same line of reasoning, a line that was very famously rejected.
- davidodio 2y ago
  well many workers can’t walk out the door anytime they want. https://www.ilo.org/topics-and-sectors/forced-labour-modern-slavery-and-trafficking-persons https://www.ilo.org/topics-and-sectors/forced-labour-modern-... you may want to ask some of them about their experiences before displaying your privilege
  - CamperBob2 2y ago
    What do they have to do with the subject of the article?
- igleria 2y ago
  my bobe had to run away from Poland circa 1933 to Argentina and I come from a smack in the middle class family. I know my family history, thanks. I see the meaning of what I quoted flew past over your head.
  - CamperBob2 2y ago
    The meaning was clear enough, but the relevance escapes me.
Aveng1991 2y ago
In the context of the current topic, follow the orders means meeting deadlines and maintaining cost. Big retail weld massive power over manufacturers, consumers over big retail, the desire for faster and cheaper goods over consumers. It’s a loop where the blame shifts as per the convenience. As a manufacturer, I have also seen some factories passing on the opportunity to contract for some really big retailers, since taking on their orders meant squeezing their workers. At the end of the day, it’s all about efficiency.But running efficiently shouldn’t come at the cost of low paid workers.
- igleria 2y ago
  > As a manufacturer, I have also seen some factories passing on the opportunity to contract for some really big retailers, since taking on their orders meant squeezing their workers. you understood EXACTLY what I meant when quoting this. You can always say no. always.
  - CamperBob2 2y ago
    You can say no unless someone holds a gun at your head. Hence my objection to your comparison of the poor downtrodden factory workers to victims of a violent totalitarian regime.

CamperBob2 2y ago

That's kind of outrageous, like the common trope of comparing workers to "slaves." Lot of privilege on display here. There are still a few Holocaust survivors left. Go ask some of them how their experience compares to that of factory workers who can, ultimately, walk out the door anytime they want.

Spivak 2y ago
You do get that The Nuremberg Defense has meaning outside the holocaust right? It's the name for when someone does something unethical/immoral with the justification that they were just following orders or just responding to the incentives they were given. There are a number of solutions to this problem that exist various places, militaries typically empower officers to disobey orders, professionals use licensure to uphold moral and ethical standards, whistleblower laws provide financial incentives the other way, unions can flex on immoral behavior. I don't believe anyone is arguing the two situations are comparable outside of the fact the defense of the behavior follows the same line of reasoning, a line that was very famously rejected.
davidodio 2y ago
well many workers can’t walk out the door anytime they want. https://www.ilo.org/topics-and-sectors/forced-labour-modern-slavery-and-trafficking-persons https://www.ilo.org/topics-and-sectors/forced-labour-modern-... you may want to ask some of them about their experiences before displaying your privilege
- CamperBob2 2y ago
  What do they have to do with the subject of the article?
igleria 2y ago
my bobe had to run away from Poland circa 1933 to Argentina and I come from a smack in the middle class family. I know my family history, thanks. I see the meaning of what I quoted flew past over your head.
- CamperBob2 2y ago
  The meaning was clear enough, but the relevance escapes me.

Aveng1991 2y ago

In the context of the current topic, follow the orders means meeting deadlines and maintaining cost. Big retail weld massive power over manufacturers, consumers over big retail, the desire for faster and cheaper goods over consumers. It’s a loop where the blame shifts as per the convenience. As a manufacturer, I have also seen some factories passing on the opportunity to contract for some really big retailers, since taking on their orders meant squeezing their workers. At the end of the day, it’s all about efficiency.But running efficiently shouldn’t come at the cost of low paid workers.

igleria 2y ago
> As a manufacturer, I have also seen some factories passing on the opportunity to contract for some really big retailers, since taking on their orders meant squeezing their workers. you understood EXACTLY what I meant when quoting this. You can always say no. always.
- CamperBob2 2y ago
  You can say no unless someone holds a gun at your head. Hence my objection to your comparison of the poor downtrodden factory workers to victims of a violent totalitarian regime.