3 ms·

It’s not just unpopular, it’s dangerous. Please people, for the love of life and health, don’t trust your medical issues to LLMs. You’re lucky it was just mon

by dartos 2y ago

It’s not just unpopular, it’s dangerous. Please people, for the love of life and health, don’t trust your medical issues to LLMs. You’re lucky it was just mono. Maybe find a better doctor if you feel you’re not getting good enough care…

atonse 2y ago
I agree with this. Any coder can tell you that AI will write some decent code, but it takes (at least at this point in time) an experienced coder to tell "this is crap code" or "this is decent code" – find a better doctor, because it's going to be hard to tell whether the advice it's giving you is the equivalent of crap code or good quality code.
throwaway153371 2y ago
I guess I don’t understand how it’s dangerous. I’m not giving myself any kind of independent treatment based on the output of an LLM. But it provides possibilities that doctors may have overlooked. Those doctors can then empirically assess the possibility in detail to determine whether it is correct.
- jasonjmcghee 2y ago
  I think parent comment is suggesting it's dangerous for you to publicly tell others that ChatGPT is better than their doctor at diagnosing them (however little of your doctor's attention you get) regardless of whether there is or isn't truth to it in certain cases. People can't know when they should/can trust an llm over a doctor. People will also misuse LLMs in the context of medical diagnosis where asking the right questions and examining the right places (and properly) can be critical. People have biases, people can have psychosomatic symptoms, people can be easily influenced, etc.
  - dartos 2y ago
    > I think parent comment is suggesting it's dangerous for you to publicly tell others that ChatGPT is better than their doctor at diagnosing them (however little of your doctor's attention you get) regardless of whether there is or isn't truth to it in certain cases. Yes, exactly. Doubly so when one has no medical expertise.
- bombcar 2y ago
  The danger is on the other side, you give the AI all your symptoms, it tells you you're fine, nothing is wrong, don't do anything. And then you ignore it and don't go to the doctor and fall over dead. Unlikely, probably. ChatGPT aims to please. There's also the risk that it recommends something that is in appropriate, but within your ability (like over-the-counter meds that shouldn't be used in your condition). But - all this stuff happens all the time anyway. Most people don't involve a doctor until they encounter something really wrong that they don't recognize. They're more likely to mention it to someone else offhand and may take whatever recommendation they get.
  - throwaway153371 2y ago
    > it tells you you're fine, nothing is wrong, don't do anything Fair point. I could see a lot of people doing that.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - menaerus 2y ago
    > The danger is on the other side, you give the AI all your symptoms, it tells you you're fine, nothing is wrong, don't do anything. It goes both ways. Replace "you give the AI" with "you give the doctor" and the issue "nothing is wrong" does not magically disappear. As a matter of fact, many doctors I have spoken with couldn't diagnose a thing and I wouldn't trust them. One of them googled about the potential symptoms of the disease in front of me because he had no familiarity with it. And that's fine I guess since humans cannot know everything? But this only reinforces the point that LLMs can definitely have their place in assisting people, and their doctors, with diagnosing their health conditions. Imagine you have a doctor who has read through literally all the medical books, documentation, research topics, experiments ... whatnot. Human of that kind does not and simply cannot exist. I think not many people understand the value and potential of LLMs, no matter how much this particular topic would be seen as sensitive or controversial.
- dartos 2y ago
  > I’m not giving myself any kind of independent treatment based on the output of an LLM. But it provides possibilities that doctors may have overlooked. You might not, but others would. I mean people take random advice from the internet all the time. IIRC There was a whole craze about ingesting or injecting bleach to “cure autism” or something. Random advice from an LLM is no better. Even worse, maybe, since there’s not going to be a bunch of negative replies to whatever the LLM outputs.
causal 2y ago
I think there are two ways using LLMs for medical advice are dangerous: 1) Treating oneself after getting bad advice or 2) Not getting treatment at all because an LLM thought a critical condition was normal. But the article and the comment both describe situations where they talked to a physician first, went to ChatGPT to refine their understanding, and then went back to a physician. Seems like a good use of LLMs.
- dartos 2y ago
  OC started their comment with > Unpopular take: ChatGPT is better at diagnosing medical problems than a doctor who does a cursory evaluation. Which is dangerous and harmful advice. No reason to muddy the waters.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
ebiester 2y ago
It must be wonderful to live in a place where that's an option. Due to my partner's work, I live in a town of about 100,000. There is a doctor shortage - New patient intake can be months. The system hangs on with physicians' assistants. Going to a specialist often means months of waiting or hours of travel. We are living in a degraded health system between the lack of doctors, burnout of doctors and nurses, and a private equity system buying up everything in sight and sucking out every last dollar it can. Maybe it's better in large cities.
- dartos 2y ago
  I don’t live in a large city. I’d bet that, if you live in the US, there are options for doctors within a 1-2 hour drive from you. I drive an hour and a half to see an independent dentist I trust. I’m lucky enough to have a decent doctor only 20 mins away. Either way, I’d never trust my health to an automated system. Especially one which can’t be held accountable in any way.
tim333 2y ago
Depends on how you use it. Just using LLMs is probably not good but LLM + seeing the doctor is quite likely better than just seeing a doctor occasionally. At least LLM advice is normally quite sensible compared with a lot of the junk advice out on the internet.

by dartos 2y ago

atonse 2y ago

I agree with this. Any coder can tell you that AI will write some decent code, but it takes (at least at this point in time) an experienced coder to tell "this is crap code" or "this is decent code" – find a better doctor, because it's going to be hard to tell whether the advice it's giving you is the equivalent of crap code or good quality code.

throwaway153371 2y ago

I guess I don’t understand how it’s dangerous. I’m not giving myself any kind of independent treatment based on the output of an LLM. But it provides possibilities that doctors may have overlooked. Those doctors can then empirically assess the possibility in detail to determine whether it is correct.

jasonjmcghee 2y ago
I think parent comment is suggesting it's dangerous for you to publicly tell others that ChatGPT is better than their doctor at diagnosing them (however little of your doctor's attention you get) regardless of whether there is or isn't truth to it in certain cases. People can't know when they should/can trust an llm over a doctor. People will also misuse LLMs in the context of medical diagnosis where asking the right questions and examining the right places (and properly) can be critical. People have biases, people can have psychosomatic symptoms, people can be easily influenced, etc.
- dartos 2y ago
  > I think parent comment is suggesting it's dangerous for you to publicly tell others that ChatGPT is better than their doctor at diagnosing them (however little of your doctor's attention you get) regardless of whether there is or isn't truth to it in certain cases. Yes, exactly. Doubly so when one has no medical expertise.
bombcar 2y ago
The danger is on the other side, you give the AI all your symptoms, it tells you you're fine, nothing is wrong, don't do anything. And then you ignore it and don't go to the doctor and fall over dead. Unlikely, probably. ChatGPT aims to please. There's also the risk that it recommends something that is in appropriate, but within your ability (like over-the-counter meds that shouldn't be used in your condition). But - all this stuff happens all the time anyway. Most people don't involve a doctor until they encounter something really wrong that they don't recognize. They're more likely to mention it to someone else offhand and may take whatever recommendation they get.
- throwaway153371 2y ago
  > it tells you you're fine, nothing is wrong, don't do anything Fair point. I could see a lot of people doing that.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- menaerus 2y ago
  > The danger is on the other side, you give the AI all your symptoms, it tells you you're fine, nothing is wrong, don't do anything. It goes both ways. Replace "you give the AI" with "you give the doctor" and the issue "nothing is wrong" does not magically disappear. As a matter of fact, many doctors I have spoken with couldn't diagnose a thing and I wouldn't trust them. One of them googled about the potential symptoms of the disease in front of me because he had no familiarity with it. And that's fine I guess since humans cannot know everything? But this only reinforces the point that LLMs can definitely have their place in assisting people, and their doctors, with diagnosing their health conditions. Imagine you have a doctor who has read through literally all the medical books, documentation, research topics, experiments ... whatnot. Human of that kind does not and simply cannot exist. I think not many people understand the value and potential of LLMs, no matter how much this particular topic would be seen as sensitive or controversial.
dartos 2y ago
> I’m not giving myself any kind of independent treatment based on the output of an LLM. But it provides possibilities that doctors may have overlooked. You might not, but others would. I mean people take random advice from the internet all the time. IIRC There was a whole craze about ingesting or injecting bleach to “cure autism” or something. Random advice from an LLM is no better. Even worse, maybe, since there’s not going to be a bunch of negative replies to whatever the LLM outputs.

causal 2y ago

I think there are two ways using LLMs for medical advice are dangerous: 1) Treating oneself after getting bad advice or 2) Not getting treatment at all because an LLM thought a critical condition was normal. But the article and the comment both describe situations where they talked to a physician first, went to ChatGPT to refine their understanding, and then went back to a physician. Seems like a good use of LLMs.

dartos 2y ago
OC started their comment with > Unpopular take: ChatGPT is better at diagnosing medical problems than a doctor who does a cursory evaluation. Which is dangerous and harmful advice. No reason to muddy the waters.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

ebiester 2y ago

It must be wonderful to live in a place where that's an option. Due to my partner's work, I live in a town of about 100,000. There is a doctor shortage - New patient intake can be months. The system hangs on with physicians' assistants. Going to a specialist often means months of waiting or hours of travel. We are living in a degraded health system between the lack of doctors, burnout of doctors and nurses, and a private equity system buying up everything in sight and sucking out every last dollar it can. Maybe it's better in large cities.

dartos 2y ago
I don’t live in a large city. I’d bet that, if you live in the US, there are options for doctors within a 1-2 hour drive from you. I drive an hour and a half to see an independent dentist I trust. I’m lucky enough to have a decent doctor only 20 mins away. Either way, I’d never trust my health to an automated system. Especially one which can’t be held accountable in any way.

tim333 2y ago

Depends on how you use it. Just using LLMs is probably not good but LLM + seeing the doctor is quite likely better than just seeing a doctor occasionally. At least LLM advice is normally quite sensible compared with a lot of the junk advice out on the internet.