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> Sadly this isn't true. CO2 emissions from fossil fuels is 38 billion tones in 2023 (https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions https://ourworldindata.org/co2-e

> Sadly this isn't true. CO2 emissions from fossil fuels is 38 billion tones in 2023 (https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions) Oceania: ~0.5 billion tones Aviation: ~1 billion tones Africa: ~1.5 billion tones Europe: ~5 billion tones America: ~7.2 billion tones Asia: ~22.5 billion tones This includes the fossil fuels from the whole industry and not only the civil transportation. Europe constitutes ~13% of total (world) emissions. How much does the fossile fuel car industry contribute to these numbers? I couldn't find that information.

menaerus 2y ago
> How much does the fossile fuel car industry contribute to these numbers? I couldn't find that information. Let's try to deduce this number. According to https://www.acea.auto/files/ACEA-report-vehicles-in-use-europe-2023.pdf https://www.acea.auto/files/ACEA-report-vehicles-in-use-euro... in 2023 there had been ~294M passenger cars registered (on the road) in EU+EFTA+UK (page nr 4). Roughly around 93% of those ~294M passenger cars are either petrol or diesel, so ~274M (page nr 14). According to https://www.acea.auto/figure/average-co2-emissions-from-new-passenger-cars-by-eu-country https://www.acea.auto/figure/average-co2-emissions-from-new-... the average CO2/km consumption for new cars is 110g. Let's correct this figure so that it also includes the older cars so let's assume that the CO2/km consumption is 130g. Let the average passenger car distance travel be 15k km a year. 274M cars * 15k km * 130g = 5.343×10¹⁴g = 0.5343 billion tonnes. So, only 10% of total CO2 emissions from Europe and 0.01% of total CO2 emissions in the world?
- antirez 2y ago
  Shouldn't that be 1% of emissions in the world? Btw, still more practical to address other stuff. Not that EV are a bad idea, but you can't force such change: the EU plans failed, because people don't have often a viable setup to switch to EV, so it should be made more incremental and together with other infrastructural changes.
  - menaerus 2y ago
    Yeah, c/p mistake, thanks for noticing. ~1% it is. > Not that EV are a bad idea From an engineering point of view, if we were to solve the pollution problem, and if the numbers above are not terribly wrong, then the EVs are not an answer. There is a huge (operating) cost attached to rebuilding the whole industry with apparently a very small impact. And I'd say with a reasonably large negative impact since we see many automotive manufacturers folding under the EV pressure. > because people don't have often a viable setup to switch to EV I agree and I would also add that not that many people can afford buying a new car for ~40k EUR. For many people this is inaccessible.
- pjc50 2y ago
  This seems completely out of line vs https://www.europarl.europa.eu/topics/en/article/20190313STO31218/co2-emissions-from-cars-facts-and-figures-infographics https://www.europarl.europa.eu/topics/en/article/20190313STO... of which 60% is cars?
  - menaerus 2y ago
    The source you mention is > according to a report from the European Environment Agency and I don't know how they got to their numbers. Don't have time to read it right now but do you see a mistake in my calculations? I think I used valid sources?
fulafel 2y ago
Tracking just the car fuel is significantly undercounting, keyword: lifecycle CO2 footprint. Esp for EVs.
- menaerus 2y ago
  Can you please elaborate what do you mean more precisely? I am not sure I understand. If 5 bln tonnes is total CO2 emissions, how else would you calculate the contribution of petrol/diesel car industry?
  - fulafel 2y ago
    In addition to the fossil fuels, car you have emissions from the manufacturing and ingredients (steel, lithium, etc), the recycling, etc. See eg https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/623b0fb28fa8f540f3202c12/lifecycle-analysis-of-UK-road-vehicles.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/623b0fb28fa8f... p.5 for a graph. (Depending on context we might include the car roads construction and maintenance as well, for example when considering the merits of different transportation modes)
    - menaerus 2y ago
      Sure but that's the total manufacturing CO2 footprint and that's not what I was trying to deduce here. I was trying to understand how much of the problem are we trying to solve with the transition to the EVs. Manufacturing CO2 emissions of the EVs ≈ manufacturing emissions of ICEs.

menaerus 2y ago

> How much does the fossile fuel car industry contribute to these numbers? I couldn't find that information. Let's try to deduce this number. According to https://www.acea.auto/files/ACEA-report-vehicles-in-use-europe-2023.pdf https://www.acea.auto/files/ACEA-report-vehicles-in-use-euro... in 2023 there had been ~294M passenger cars registered (on the road) in EU+EFTA+UK (page nr 4). Roughly around 93% of those ~294M passenger cars are either petrol or diesel, so ~274M (page nr 14). According to https://www.acea.auto/figure/average-co2-emissions-from-new-passenger-cars-by-eu-country https://www.acea.auto/figure/average-co2-emissions-from-new-... the average CO2/km consumption for new cars is 110g. Let's correct this figure so that it also includes the older cars so let's assume that the CO2/km consumption is 130g. Let the average passenger car distance travel be 15k km a year. 274M cars * 15k km * 130g = 5.343×10¹⁴g = 0.5343 billion tonnes. So, only 10% of total CO2 emissions from Europe and 0.01% of total CO2 emissions in the world?

antirez 2y ago
Shouldn't that be 1% of emissions in the world? Btw, still more practical to address other stuff. Not that EV are a bad idea, but you can't force such change: the EU plans failed, because people don't have often a viable setup to switch to EV, so it should be made more incremental and together with other infrastructural changes.
- menaerus 2y ago
  Yeah, c/p mistake, thanks for noticing. ~1% it is. > Not that EV are a bad idea From an engineering point of view, if we were to solve the pollution problem, and if the numbers above are not terribly wrong, then the EVs are not an answer. There is a huge (operating) cost attached to rebuilding the whole industry with apparently a very small impact. And I'd say with a reasonably large negative impact since we see many automotive manufacturers folding under the EV pressure. > because people don't have often a viable setup to switch to EV I agree and I would also add that not that many people can afford buying a new car for ~40k EUR. For many people this is inaccessible.
pjc50 2y ago
This seems completely out of line vs https://www.europarl.europa.eu/topics/en/article/20190313STO31218/co2-emissions-from-cars-facts-and-figures-infographics https://www.europarl.europa.eu/topics/en/article/20190313STO... of which 60% is cars?
- menaerus 2y ago
  The source you mention is > according to a report from the European Environment Agency and I don't know how they got to their numbers. Don't have time to read it right now but do you see a mistake in my calculations? I think I used valid sources?

fulafel 2y ago

Tracking just the car fuel is significantly undercounting, keyword: lifecycle CO2 footprint. Esp for EVs.

menaerus 2y ago
Can you please elaborate what do you mean more precisely? I am not sure I understand. If 5 bln tonnes is total CO2 emissions, how else would you calculate the contribution of petrol/diesel car industry?
- fulafel 2y ago
  In addition to the fossil fuels, car you have emissions from the manufacturing and ingredients (steel, lithium, etc), the recycling, etc. See eg https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/623b0fb28fa8f540f3202c12/lifecycle-analysis-of-UK-road-vehicles.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/623b0fb28fa8f... p.5 for a graph. (Depending on context we might include the car roads construction and maintenance as well, for example when considering the merits of different transportation modes)
  - menaerus 2y ago
    Sure but that's the total manufacturing CO2 footprint and that's not what I was trying to deduce here. I was trying to understand how much of the problem are we trying to solve with the transition to the EVs. Manufacturing CO2 emissions of the EVs ≈ manufacturing emissions of ICEs.