3 ms·

Not the OP, but to me it's all of it. Just the nazi salutes would be enough for me not to buy Teslas (or StarLink), but at this point I would avoid any US car.

by palata 2y ago

ffsm8 2y ago
Ford is based though. I mean the CEO said publicly (on a podcast ) that the Xiaomi Car is better then anything they've ever produced. Now that's a statement! (also the Xiaomi Car has massively under specced breaks. But that's hard to notice as a normal driver as he is)
- cjrp 2y ago
  I wouldn't say Jim Farley (Ford CEO) is a normal driver; he races vintage cars, modern Mustangs and other things too.
- SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
  > Ford is based though. Well. the Wikipedia article on Henry Ford has a whole section entitled "Antisemitism" which starts "Ford was a conspiracy theorist" and details Nazi links. So, what else is new in the world of Car Company tycoons?
  - rsynnott 2y ago
    See, the critical thing is, Henry Ford is, thankfully, very, very dead. Ford, the modern company, is not run by a 150 year old zombie bigot. It's a very different situation.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
      Yes, and as the other commenter noted, 75 years after Henry Ford's death, Ford's image is mostly rehabilitated. Mostly. People who avoid Ford vehicles for this reason (rather than avoiding the vehicles on their own merits) are rare but they do exist. Perhaps 50 or more years after the end of Tesla's iconic leader, the same rehabilitation will happen to Tesla.
  - senordevnyc 2y ago
    I'll also be open to rethinking purchasing a Tesla once Musk has been dead for 75 years.
exodust 2y ago
[flagged]
- rmu09 2y ago
  A self-reflected sane person would see how that gesture in that context can be misinterpreted and would have avoided it in the first place. It's not like you can't express throwing your heart out only in this way. So I guess it was deliberate. Deliberate to look like and walk like a sieg heil, only missing the quack. Maybe a provocation, but an unnecessary one and provoking with Nazi symbolism is completely unacceptable.
  - exodust 2y ago
    Surely you're having a laugh presenting that argument? He's literally in the middle of saying "thank you"... that's what's coming out his mouth. Nobody in history has given nazi salutes while expressing elated smiling, laughing gratitude to cheering crowds, who in turn are not saluting back or even in the same universe as your nazi claim.
- acdha 2y ago
  It’s odd how Musk never seems to have that awkwardness cause him to make other random gestures which don’t look like Nazi salutes. Similarly, while it’s true that the ADL tried to excuse it, that’s the opinion of their controversial new president and is far from a consensus position. Many other people, including their former national director, did describe it as a fascist salute: https://forward.com/fast-forward/690745/adl-elon-musk-sieg-heil-hitler-salute-nazi/ https://forward.com/fast-forward/690745/adl-elon-musk-sieg-h... https://www.lemkininstitute.com/red-flag-alerts/red-flag-alert-for-genocide---united-states:-the-rise-of-the-nazi-salute https://www.lemkininstitute.com/red-flag-alerts/red-flag-ale... https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jan/21/the-gesture-speaks-for-itself-germans-divided-over-musks-apparent-nazi-salute https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jan/21/the-gestu... Most tellingly, of course, is that extremists all over the world recognized and celebrated rated it. The whole “Roman salute” excuse started as a claim by Musk’s connection to the Italian far-right, apparently hoping that American audiences didn’t know that was a fascist symbol: https://apnews.com/article/musk-gesture-salute-antisemitism-0070dae53c7a73397b104ae645877535 https://apnews.com/article/musk-gesture-salute-antisemitism-... > Musk himself mocked those accusing him, threatened to sue, and has made jokes about raising his arm the wrong way. Nazi saluters don't do that, they're proud to nazi salute that's the point. But I suppose if you hate Musk you'll cling to your story even with evidence supporting the contrary. This is simply intellectual dishonesty: while they say they’re joking, that doesn’t mean that they’re being honest when they do so, that other people are not allowed to disagree with that excuse, that the only motivation for disagreement is some personal hatred for Musk, or that personal opinions constitute incontrovertible evidence which cannot be argued.

Not the OP, but to me it's all of it. Just the nazi salutes would be enough for me not to buy Teslas (or StarLink), but at this point I would avoid any US car.

by palata 2y ago

Not the OP, but to me it's all of it. Just the nazi salutes would be enough for me not to buy Teslas (or StarLink), but at this point I would avoid any US car.

ffsm8 2y ago

Ford is based though. I mean the CEO said publicly (on a podcast ) that the Xiaomi Car is better then anything they've ever produced. Now that's a statement! (also the Xiaomi Car has massively under specced breaks. But that's hard to notice as a normal driver as he is)

cjrp 2y ago
I wouldn't say Jim Farley (Ford CEO) is a normal driver; he races vintage cars, modern Mustangs and other things too.
SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
> Ford is based though. Well. the Wikipedia article on Henry Ford has a whole section entitled "Antisemitism" which starts "Ford was a conspiracy theorist" and details Nazi links. So, what else is new in the world of Car Company tycoons?
- rsynnott 2y ago
  See, the critical thing is, Henry Ford is, thankfully, very, very dead. Ford, the modern company, is not run by a 150 year old zombie bigot. It's a very different situation.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
    Yes, and as the other commenter noted, 75 years after Henry Ford's death, Ford's image is mostly rehabilitated. Mostly. People who avoid Ford vehicles for this reason (rather than avoiding the vehicles on their own merits) are rare but they do exist. Perhaps 50 or more years after the end of Tesla's iconic leader, the same rehabilitation will happen to Tesla.
- senordevnyc 2y ago
  I'll also be open to rethinking purchasing a Tesla once Musk has been dead for 75 years.

exodust 2y ago

[flagged]

rmu09 2y ago
A self-reflected sane person would see how that gesture in that context can be misinterpreted and would have avoided it in the first place. It's not like you can't express throwing your heart out only in this way. So I guess it was deliberate. Deliberate to look like and walk like a sieg heil, only missing the quack. Maybe a provocation, but an unnecessary one and provoking with Nazi symbolism is completely unacceptable.
- exodust 2y ago
  Surely you're having a laugh presenting that argument? He's literally in the middle of saying "thank you"... that's what's coming out his mouth. Nobody in history has given nazi salutes while expressing elated smiling, laughing gratitude to cheering crowds, who in turn are not saluting back or even in the same universe as your nazi claim.
acdha 2y ago
It’s odd how Musk never seems to have that awkwardness cause him to make other random gestures which don’t look like Nazi salutes. Similarly, while it’s true that the ADL tried to excuse it, that’s the opinion of their controversial new president and is far from a consensus position. Many other people, including their former national director, did describe it as a fascist salute: https://forward.com/fast-forward/690745/adl-elon-musk-sieg-heil-hitler-salute-nazi/ https://forward.com/fast-forward/690745/adl-elon-musk-sieg-h... https://www.lemkininstitute.com/red-flag-alerts/red-flag-alert-for-genocide---united-states:-the-rise-of-the-nazi-salute https://www.lemkininstitute.com/red-flag-alerts/red-flag-ale... https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jan/21/the-gesture-speaks-for-itself-germans-divided-over-musks-apparent-nazi-salute https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jan/21/the-gestu... Most tellingly, of course, is that extremists all over the world recognized and celebrated rated it. The whole “Roman salute” excuse started as a claim by Musk’s connection to the Italian far-right, apparently hoping that American audiences didn’t know that was a fascist symbol: https://apnews.com/article/musk-gesture-salute-antisemitism-0070dae53c7a73397b104ae645877535 https://apnews.com/article/musk-gesture-salute-antisemitism-... > Musk himself mocked those accusing him, threatened to sue, and has made jokes about raising his arm the wrong way. Nazi saluters don't do that, they're proud to nazi salute that's the point. But I suppose if you hate Musk you'll cling to your story even with evidence supporting the contrary. This is simply intellectual dishonesty: while they say they’re joking, that doesn’t mean that they’re being honest when they do so, that other people are not allowed to disagree with that excuse, that the only motivation for disagreement is some personal hatred for Musk, or that personal opinions constitute incontrovertible evidence which cannot be argued.