6 ms·

please do berlin, london, and stockholm.

vanderZwan 2y ago
Yeah, this is a nice selection of European cities to compare! Having lived in Berlin and Stockholm (and a few other cities), I'd say Stockholm has by far the worst kebab options of all places I've lived, while Berlin was the best one. I'm curious whether this is reflected in local reviews, or whether the locals just lower or heighten their standards based on the what the average food quality is like.
- vidarh 2y ago
  Kebabs are one of the foods (like Chinese cuisine) that morphs depending on a combination of which kebab-eating group brought it to the country, and local cuisine. I'm not sure about Stockholm, or Sweden in general, when it comes to kebabs, but kebabs in Norway bear little resemblance to the kebabs I get in London. And the UK now has a chain serving "German" kebabs, which again are significantly different from the kebabs we get from Turkish takeaway places and restaurants here... It's not that they're better or worse - I might crave one or the other depending on what I'm in the mood for, as they're almost different dishes. So, comparing cities against each other is a lot harder than comparing differences in local opinion by location within a city.
  - phist_mcgee 2y ago
    Kebabs in Australia are basically a different food to the one you get in continental Europe. Good, but different.
  - randomcarbloke 2y ago
    The author is Swedish, and having asked some Swedes they basically consider the kebab to be the goto "local" cuisine. London of course has the two styles, |Turkish| and Turkish via Germany.
- ido 2y ago
  As someone whose been living in Berlin for the last 11 years I'm always horrified to read people say they wish the had high quality kebabs "like in Berlin" - the average kebab here is atrocious (obviously optimized for price and not for quality) - the best ones are OK but definitely not amazing. I don't want to find out how bad the kebabs are in Sweden and other places you hear the from like some US cities if you think Berlin kebab is high quality in comparison.
  - klausa 2y ago
    As someone who moved out of Berlin a year and a half ago — you truly do not want to find out how other people live. I know getting something on the same level as Rüyam would be impossible; but I would pay a not-insignificant money for something resembling a random Bude near my old place.
  - vanderZwan 2y ago
    Well, technically I did say "has best options", not "the kebab quality median is great". I now live in Malmö, which has a much higher number of people from Middle-Eastern countries, so their cuisine is also a lot better than what you can get in Stockholm. However, since I've also become vegetarian in the intervening years I could not tell you what the local quality of the kebab is. Falafel is pretty passable though. And one of my Iraqi friends has said the better places in Malmö win the "least disappointing experience in Sweden compared to home" award, for what it's worth.
    - ido 2y ago
      "Least disappointing experience" is how I would put the better kebab places in Berlin! Shawarma in Tel Aviv is not exactly the same but similar and so much better (of course there's a lot of variability in quality there too, and it costs something like 2-3x as much as kebabs in Berlin). I'm sure you can also get amazing specimen in Arab countries and in Turkey (I don't have first hand experience there).
      - OkayPhysicist 2y ago
- s0fasurfa 2y ago
  Berlin shouldn't be a surprise, because the Kebap Sandwich was invented here (at least according to some sources: https://berlinexperiences.com/was-the-doner-kebab-invented-in-berlin-mythbusting-berlin/ https://berlinexperiences.com/was-the-doner-kebab-invented-i...) Before that, Kebap was a dish served on a plate, taken in a seated manner.
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    The article itself gives a negative verdict on this: Verdict NO The Döner Kebab was not invented in Berlin. Popularised here? Ok. But there are no participation trophies for that. And they're correct. After all, you have not experienced döner kebap until you have tasted the original Klingon jIrtaH ghab.
    - the_clarence 2y ago
      I don't understand how it was popularised there though. It's a staple in France and seems to have no connection to Germany
  - mda 2y ago
    Doner kebap was invented in Ottoman empire in 19th century. It was also usually eaten inside bread. Turkish immigrants introduced it in Germany in 70's. However it is true that the current version of Doner kebap in Germany is quite different than Turkish counterparts. (Sauces, toppings etc)
  - OkayPhysicist 2y ago
    This is plainly false. Doner was being served in both sandwich and wrapped forms in Turkey well before the 70's. It was one of my grandfather's favorite foods growing up in Ankara in the 40's, and I've got family photos with street vendors selling it on the streets of Istanbul in the 60s. It is true that in Turkey, you'll find the Döner Iskendar (cubes of bread, covered in döner meat, covered in sauce, on a plate) as a very common dish, but to claim that the street food variant was new in the 70's is insane. There are a ton of people alive today who can refute that, trivially.

Yeah, this is a nice selection of European cities to compare! Having lived in Berlin and Stockholm (and a few other cities), I'd say Stockholm has by far the worst kebab options of all places I've lived, while Berlin was the best one. I'm curious whether this is reflected in local reviews, or whether the locals just lower or heighten their standards based on the what the average food quality is like.

vidarh 2y ago
Kebabs are one of the foods (like Chinese cuisine) that morphs depending on a combination of which kebab-eating group brought it to the country, and local cuisine. I'm not sure about Stockholm, or Sweden in general, when it comes to kebabs, but kebabs in Norway bear little resemblance to the kebabs I get in London. And the UK now has a chain serving "German" kebabs, which again are significantly different from the kebabs we get from Turkish takeaway places and restaurants here... It's not that they're better or worse - I might crave one or the other depending on what I'm in the mood for, as they're almost different dishes. So, comparing cities against each other is a lot harder than comparing differences in local opinion by location within a city.
- phist_mcgee 2y ago
  Kebabs in Australia are basically a different food to the one you get in continental Europe. Good, but different.
- randomcarbloke 2y ago
  The author is Swedish, and having asked some Swedes they basically consider the kebab to be the goto "local" cuisine. London of course has the two styles, |Turkish| and Turkish via Germany.
ido 2y ago
As someone whose been living in Berlin for the last 11 years I'm always horrified to read people say they wish the had high quality kebabs "like in Berlin" - the average kebab here is atrocious (obviously optimized for price and not for quality) - the best ones are OK but definitely not amazing. I don't want to find out how bad the kebabs are in Sweden and other places you hear the from like some US cities if you think Berlin kebab is high quality in comparison.
- klausa 2y ago
  As someone who moved out of Berlin a year and a half ago — you truly do not want to find out how other people live. I know getting something on the same level as Rüyam would be impossible; but I would pay a not-insignificant money for something resembling a random Bude near my old place.
- vanderZwan 2y ago
  Well, technically I did say "has best options", not "the kebab quality median is great". I now live in Malmö, which has a much higher number of people from Middle-Eastern countries, so their cuisine is also a lot better than what you can get in Stockholm. However, since I've also become vegetarian in the intervening years I could not tell you what the local quality of the kebab is. Falafel is pretty passable though. And one of my Iraqi friends has said the better places in Malmö win the "least disappointing experience in Sweden compared to home" award, for what it's worth.
  - ido 2y ago
    "Least disappointing experience" is how I would put the better kebab places in Berlin! Shawarma in Tel Aviv is not exactly the same but similar and so much better (of course there's a lot of variability in quality there too, and it costs something like 2-3x as much as kebabs in Berlin). I'm sure you can also get amazing specimen in Arab countries and in Turkey (I don't have first hand experience there).
    - OkayPhysicist 2y ago
s0fasurfa 2y ago
Berlin shouldn't be a surprise, because the Kebap Sandwich was invented here (at least according to some sources: https://berlinexperiences.com/was-the-doner-kebab-invented-in-berlin-mythbusting-berlin/ https://berlinexperiences.com/was-the-doner-kebab-invented-i...) Before that, Kebap was a dish served on a plate, taken in a seated manner.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  The article itself gives a negative verdict on this: Verdict NO The Döner Kebab was not invented in Berlin. Popularised here? Ok. But there are no participation trophies for that. And they're correct. After all, you have not experienced döner kebap until you have tasted the original Klingon jIrtaH ghab.
  - the_clarence 2y ago
    I don't understand how it was popularised there though. It's a staple in France and seems to have no connection to Germany
- mda 2y ago
  Doner kebap was invented in Ottoman empire in 19th century. It was also usually eaten inside bread. Turkish immigrants introduced it in Germany in 70's. However it is true that the current version of Doner kebap in Germany is quite different than Turkish counterparts. (Sauces, toppings etc)
- OkayPhysicist 2y ago
  This is plainly false. Doner was being served in both sandwich and wrapped forms in Turkey well before the 70's. It was one of my grandfather's favorite foods growing up in Ankara in the 40's, and I've got family photos with street vendors selling it on the streets of Istanbul in the 60s. It is true that in Turkey, you'll find the Döner Iskendar (cubes of bread, covered in döner meat, covered in sauce, on a plate) as a very common dish, but to claim that the street food variant was new in the 70's is insane. There are a ton of people alive today who can refute that, trivially.