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You should be careful about claims made in Adam Curtis videos. His cinematography is great and I love him because of the ADD-style and music he uses, but a lot

You should be careful about claims made in Adam Curtis videos. His cinematography is great and I love him because of the ADD-style and music he uses, but a lot of information is very biased and, in very many cases, just plain false (e.g. In one of his movies he calls Herbert Marcuse the leader of the student movement of the 60s and shows a short clip of him talking. The short clip is taken from an interview in which one finds, if watched integrally, Marcuse himself explaining why he is NOT an important figure in the movement). So maybe one should see the movies as entertainment rather than documentaries.

tatsuke95 14y ago
>"The short clip is taken from an interview in which one finds, if watched integrally, Marcuse himself explaining why he is NOT an important figure in the movement" That's called modesty. To deny Marcuse had no influence because he said he didn't is incredibly naive. As far as "bias", every piece of media we consume has bias. Making claims of, "This is biased!" is something you do in high school readings; of course it's biased. Mr. Curtis is using film to express an opinion and theory about how he sees things work. That's what all artists, writers and film makers do. Some of his ideas are a bit of a stretch, yes. But I think people are doing a great disservice to others by attaching a disclaimer to these films. In my opinion, Curtis makes some of the most well-done, stylized, intellectual and entertaining documentaries going (and this series is probably his worst). If you don't like his films, that's fine. But don't try to pass him off as a nutter. That's unfair and biased.
- jacques_chester 14y ago
  Bias is not a binary proposition. There are degrees of bias. More is, generally, considered to be worse. "But they're all doing it too!" is not a defence against charges of bias in any case.
  - tatsuke95 14y ago
    Understood. But this isn't Mein Kampf, or even Michael Moore. In fact, most of the work isn't even what you'd call political.
- cvursache 14y ago
  You are completely right, Marcuse is very modest in portraying himself as an influential figure, and I didn't want to sound as if arguing that he had no influence. He had an influence, but he was in NO way involved in organizing any of the actions the students took. To quote him, he was a "father figure" to them, rather than a leader. To answer your second point, I don't want to argue that Adam Curtis makes bad movies, quite the contrary. But his intellectual contributions are very questionable. There is a reason why contrarian people like Noam Chomsky are widely respected, and there is a reason why people like Adam Curtis are not. To quote Carl Sagan: 'Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.'. And Curtis seems to provide the former without the latter.
  - drcongo 14y ago
    What makes you say that Adam Curtis is not widely respected? By whom?
  - cvursache 14y ago
    I would argue that Adam Curtis is not widely respected (or known for that matter) in the area of academic discourse and that if he could back some of the big claims made in his movies with solid arguments and evidence, he would have made more of a difference in the world of political thought.
  - waterlesscloud 14y ago
    It would be interesting to compare the number of people familiar with Curtis's work vs those familiar with Chomsky's. I think Chomsky would likely come out ahead, but he's had a head start. I don't know I'd bet on that being true in 5-10 years.
  - tatsuke95 14y ago
    I suppose I was a bit defensive because I generally consider this forum to have a slightly "high-brow" slant. I also take much advice from it. So while you're certainly entitled to your opinion, and to like or dislike the films, I think the works are all good enough that people should be encouraged to watch them. As opposed to you telling me Transformers 3 sucks, and me never having to think about watching it after that. When I leapt into the comments there happened to be a slightly unfavourable sentiment regarding Adam Curtis. I just wanted people to know that everything he's produced is at least worth a viewing.
bgruber 14y ago
I think yours is the best assessment. The only one of his films i've seen ("The Trap") was a bizarre viewing experience, because I agreed with most of his conclusions and found the filmmaking technique and music impressive, but thought that his arguments were specious.

tatsuke95 14y ago

>"The short clip is taken from an interview in which one finds, if watched integrally, Marcuse himself explaining why he is NOT an important figure in the movement" That's called modesty. To deny Marcuse had no influence because he said he didn't is incredibly naive. As far as "bias", every piece of media we consume has bias. Making claims of, "This is biased!" is something you do in high school readings; of course it's biased. Mr. Curtis is using film to express an opinion and theory about how he sees things work. That's what all artists, writers and film makers do. Some of his ideas are a bit of a stretch, yes. But I think people are doing a great disservice to others by attaching a disclaimer to these films. In my opinion, Curtis makes some of the most well-done, stylized, intellectual and entertaining documentaries going (and this series is probably his worst). If you don't like his films, that's fine. But don't try to pass him off as a nutter. That's unfair and biased.

jacques_chester 14y ago
Bias is not a binary proposition. There are degrees of bias. More is, generally, considered to be worse. "But they're all doing it too!" is not a defence against charges of bias in any case.
- tatsuke95 14y ago
  Understood. But this isn't Mein Kampf, or even Michael Moore. In fact, most of the work isn't even what you'd call political.
cvursache 14y ago
You are completely right, Marcuse is very modest in portraying himself as an influential figure, and I didn't want to sound as if arguing that he had no influence. He had an influence, but he was in NO way involved in organizing any of the actions the students took. To quote him, he was a "father figure" to them, rather than a leader. To answer your second point, I don't want to argue that Adam Curtis makes bad movies, quite the contrary. But his intellectual contributions are very questionable. There is a reason why contrarian people like Noam Chomsky are widely respected, and there is a reason why people like Adam Curtis are not. To quote Carl Sagan: 'Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.'. And Curtis seems to provide the former without the latter.
- drcongo 14y ago
  What makes you say that Adam Curtis is not widely respected? By whom?
- cvursache 14y ago
  I would argue that Adam Curtis is not widely respected (or known for that matter) in the area of academic discourse and that if he could back some of the big claims made in his movies with solid arguments and evidence, he would have made more of a difference in the world of political thought.
- waterlesscloud 14y ago
  It would be interesting to compare the number of people familiar with Curtis's work vs those familiar with Chomsky's. I think Chomsky would likely come out ahead, but he's had a head start. I don't know I'd bet on that being true in 5-10 years.
- tatsuke95 14y ago
  I suppose I was a bit defensive because I generally consider this forum to have a slightly "high-brow" slant. I also take much advice from it. So while you're certainly entitled to your opinion, and to like or dislike the films, I think the works are all good enough that people should be encouraged to watch them. As opposed to you telling me Transformers 3 sucks, and me never having to think about watching it after that. When I leapt into the comments there happened to be a slightly unfavourable sentiment regarding Adam Curtis. I just wanted people to know that everything he's produced is at least worth a viewing.

bgruber 14y ago

I think yours is the best assessment. The only one of his films i've seen ("The Trap") was a bizarre viewing experience, because I agreed with most of his conclusions and found the filmmaking technique and music impressive, but thought that his arguments were specious.