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The fact that people who by all appearances are intelligent human beings, could post things like this... Nero plays his cithara. I am at a loss for words. I gu

The fact that people who by all appearances are intelligent human beings, could post things like this... Nero plays his cithara. I am at a loss for words. I guess the real problem with propaganda is getting high on your own supply. edit: As an example, the Supreme Court overturning Chevron deference was a decision against un-elected officials making government calls, instead of the law makers, aka Congress. Now, just months later, here we are. The exact opposite is happening. The most un-elected, un-appointed person in US government history is holding the purse strings, and not a chirp. While Musk's cithara gently weeps.

rayiner 2y ago
You should read some books on history and foreign affairs. Most of the world hates the “liberal international order” because it’s an excuse for the U.S. to impose its values on the rest of the world. DOGE revealed that USAID was funding political unrest in my home country (where activists recently overthrew the government). The U.S. has finally turned a corner on it only because the deep staters started turning that same attitude inward, pointing it at Ohio instead of India. Death of liberal internationalism isn’t something anyone should mourn. There’s no inconsistency between Loper Bright and DOGE. Both reflect separation of powers. The judiciary interprets the law, not the executive branch. But the executive branch—which consists of the President and his agents—decides how to make discretionary spending decisions and hiring and firing of federal employees. Everyone is staying in their lane. (You’re incorrect that DOGE is “holding the purse strings.” Congress has passed appropriations bills that delegate massive discretionary authority to the executive. DOGE, under Trump’s directions, is countermanding spending decisions made by executive civil servants, not Congress.)
- consumer451 2y ago
  > DOGE revealed that USAID was funding political unrest in my home country (where activists recently overthrew the government) Let's just focus on this part for a moment. Could you please share this evidence?
  - rayiner 2y ago
    For context, you should read about how USAID historically has acted to interfere in the politics of other counties: https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/04/03/cuban-twitter-and-other-times-usaid-pretended-to-be-an-intelligence-agency https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/04/03/cuban-twitter-and-other...; https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2014/04/15/when-is-foreign-aid-meddling/secret-programs-hurt-foreign-aid-efforts https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2014/04/15/when-is-for...; https://www.jstor.org/stable/4017728 https://www.jstor.org/stable/4017728 As to Bangladesh specifically: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/south-asia/usaid-bypassed-govt-channels-to-fund-29-million-political-project-bangladesh-official/articleshow/118545702.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/south-asia/usaid-b...; https://www.tbsnews.net/bangladesh/29m-usaid-fund-went-bangladesh-firm-only-2-people-trump-1074911 https://www.tbsnews.net/bangladesh/29m-usaid-fund-went-bangl... There is no such thing as funding to “strengthen democracy” or whatever euphemisms USAID uses. It’s election interference directed against whatever administration is currently in power in a foreign country.
    - dashundchen 2y ago
      Neither of your articles have any proof or evidence the $20 million funds to Bangladesh are real. It's just what Trump claimed off the cuff. Trump is a known liar. It's why his supporters are always telling other people not take him literally They lied about $50 million for condoms in Gaza, just like he lied about Haitian immigrants eating pets and the dozens of other lies he spews out daily. DOGE has posted a ton of lies about what they saved and cut, including contracts that were already canceled or completed, and including amounts orders of magnitude off.
      - rayiner 2y ago
        https://www.highergov.com/grant/AID388A1700003/ https://www.highergov.com/grant/AID388A1700003/
        dashundchen 2y ago
        That still doesn't match what Trump, DOGE/Musk or you claimed. That organization has many employees, not 2 like Trump claimed. It operates in countries around the world, not just Bangladesh. It's unlikely all those funds were spent in Bangladesh there like Trump was claiming. Bangladeshi government officials can't confirm Trump's claim. Musk/DOGE lied about what the funds were used for, and lied that they somehow saved the money by cancelling the contract - the funds were already almost entirely granted. Cancelling a contract doesn't mean those funds already spent are returned. The org does monitor elections, but did you know that the US also has international observers during our elections? There's no indication any funds went to election interference. A quick browse of their site shows they conducted a few surveys and held some workshops to encourage women to engage in the the political process - if you consider that election interference, I'm not sure what that says about you. Seems like a great idea to me in a country that frequently ranks near the bottom in studies of global women's rights. This is the problem. Trump and Musk spew out lies and make wild out-of-context claims, they get repeated thought because it fits a partisan view. But it takes effort to debunk lies so they spread faster than they can be responded to.
- pjc50 2y ago
  > it’s an excuse for the U.S. to impose its values on the rest of the world Some of this is bad (war on terror), some of this is good (liberal democracy), and ultimately if you don't like a liberal international order wait until you see what the illiberal one looks like (e.g. Chinese overseas police stations).
  - rayiner 2y ago
    No, “liberal democracy” is bad too. It involves doing things like involving western moral standards in muslim countries and interfering in elections under the pretext of “human rights.” Fighting terrorism is at least beneficial to the U.S.
- jisnsm 2y ago
  Reading the most extreme advocates of progressivism here defend American imperialism just to oppose Trump is amusing to me. I used to laugh at the idea of a “Trump Derangement Syndrome”, but now I’m not so sure anymore.

rayiner 2y ago

You should read some books on history and foreign affairs. Most of the world hates the “liberal international order” because it’s an excuse for the U.S. to impose its values on the rest of the world. DOGE revealed that USAID was funding political unrest in my home country (where activists recently overthrew the government). The U.S. has finally turned a corner on it only because the deep staters started turning that same attitude inward, pointing it at Ohio instead of India. Death of liberal internationalism isn’t something anyone should mourn. There’s no inconsistency between Loper Bright and DOGE. Both reflect separation of powers. The judiciary interprets the law, not the executive branch. But the executive branch—which consists of the President and his agents—decides how to make discretionary spending decisions and hiring and firing of federal employees. Everyone is staying in their lane. (You’re incorrect that DOGE is “holding the purse strings.” Congress has passed appropriations bills that delegate massive discretionary authority to the executive. DOGE, under Trump’s directions, is countermanding spending decisions made by executive civil servants, not Congress.)

consumer451 2y ago
> DOGE revealed that USAID was funding political unrest in my home country (where activists recently overthrew the government) Let's just focus on this part for a moment. Could you please share this evidence?
- rayiner 2y ago
  For context, you should read about how USAID historically has acted to interfere in the politics of other counties: https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/04/03/cuban-twitter-and-other-times-usaid-pretended-to-be-an-intelligence-agency https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/04/03/cuban-twitter-and-other...; https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2014/04/15/when-is-foreign-aid-meddling/secret-programs-hurt-foreign-aid-efforts https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2014/04/15/when-is-for...; https://www.jstor.org/stable/4017728 https://www.jstor.org/stable/4017728 As to Bangladesh specifically: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/south-asia/usaid-bypassed-govt-channels-to-fund-29-million-political-project-bangladesh-official/articleshow/118545702.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/south-asia/usaid-b...; https://www.tbsnews.net/bangladesh/29m-usaid-fund-went-bangladesh-firm-only-2-people-trump-1074911 https://www.tbsnews.net/bangladesh/29m-usaid-fund-went-bangl... There is no such thing as funding to “strengthen democracy” or whatever euphemisms USAID uses. It’s election interference directed against whatever administration is currently in power in a foreign country.
  - dashundchen 2y ago
    Neither of your articles have any proof or evidence the $20 million funds to Bangladesh are real. It's just what Trump claimed off the cuff. Trump is a known liar. It's why his supporters are always telling other people not take him literally They lied about $50 million for condoms in Gaza, just like he lied about Haitian immigrants eating pets and the dozens of other lies he spews out daily. DOGE has posted a ton of lies about what they saved and cut, including contracts that were already canceled or completed, and including amounts orders of magnitude off.
    - rayiner 2y ago
      https://www.highergov.com/grant/AID388A1700003/ https://www.highergov.com/grant/AID388A1700003/
      - dashundchen 2y ago
        That still doesn't match what Trump, DOGE/Musk or you claimed. That organization has many employees, not 2 like Trump claimed. It operates in countries around the world, not just Bangladesh. It's unlikely all those funds were spent in Bangladesh there like Trump was claiming. Bangladeshi government officials can't confirm Trump's claim. Musk/DOGE lied about what the funds were used for, and lied that they somehow saved the money by cancelling the contract - the funds were already almost entirely granted. Cancelling a contract doesn't mean those funds already spent are returned. The org does monitor elections, but did you know that the US also has international observers during our elections? There's no indication any funds went to election interference. A quick browse of their site shows they conducted a few surveys and held some workshops to encourage women to engage in the the political process - if you consider that election interference, I'm not sure what that says about you. Seems like a great idea to me in a country that frequently ranks near the bottom in studies of global women's rights. This is the problem. Trump and Musk spew out lies and make wild out-of-context claims, they get repeated thought because it fits a partisan view. But it takes effort to debunk lies so they spread faster than they can be responded to.
pjc50 2y ago
> it’s an excuse for the U.S. to impose its values on the rest of the world Some of this is bad (war on terror), some of this is good (liberal democracy), and ultimately if you don't like a liberal international order wait until you see what the illiberal one looks like (e.g. Chinese overseas police stations).
- rayiner 2y ago
  No, “liberal democracy” is bad too. It involves doing things like involving western moral standards in muslim countries and interfering in elections under the pretext of “human rights.” Fighting terrorism is at least beneficial to the U.S.
jisnsm 2y ago
Reading the most extreme advocates of progressivism here defend American imperialism just to oppose Trump is amusing to me. I used to laugh at the idea of a “Trump Derangement Syndrome”, but now I’m not so sure anymore.