7 ms·

Tell me, what particular tenet of atheism produced communism and its murderous history? It's pretty clear where the inspiration for the Inquisition came from.

gjsman-1000 2y ago
“Religion is the opium of the masses.” - Karl Marx “Religion is the soul of soulless conditions.” - Karl Marx “Communism begins where atheism begins.” - Karl Marx But seriously, there’s a whole Wikipedia article on the origins. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist%E2%80%93Leninist_atheism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist%E2%80%93Leninist_ath... The early communists did not hide this connection. Guess what one of the first agencies in the new USSR was called? The League of Militant Atheists. Ironically, the league was responsible for more deaths by itself than the Inquisition. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists As for why atheism often leads to communism, the reason is fairly simple. Atheists like to pretend that they are only responsible for one tenant of belief: “I don’t believe in a God.” This is not actually true. Imagine if a country puts in a law banning adultery, with heavy fines for doing so. The atheist would likely be angry, even if everyone else in the country agreed with the law. Why should they? There’s no God saying that’s wrong; it’s just a personal opinion like preferring a red car over a blue car. It turns out there’s actually a second tenant: “Any law or penalty or qualm of conscience, imposed solely by religion, without a justifiable ground outside of religion, shall be considered an unjust oppression, which must be destroyed.” An oppression, not live and let live, not merely an inconvenience, even if the majority is fine with it. That’s where violence begins, and the preference for an inherently Godless (and inherently anti-religious) society originates. The two then are as impossible to reconcile as oil and water; one must be comfortably under the thumb of the other if any tolerance is to be had. If one ever loses the upper hand, or the two become an equilibrium, violence will immediately start - an Inquisition on one hand, a League of Militant Atheists on the other.
- stickfigure 2y ago
  Find another pulpit.
- adrian_b 2y ago
  All the communists, early or late, have been just liars who have used an obfuscated language, where all important words have meant other things than what the Communists claimed. One cannot judge what Communism is by interpreting literally any text written by a Communist, because all such texts have been just propaganda designed to fool the weaker minds. In order to understand Communism, one must examine what Communists have done, not what they have said. By comparing facts with words, one can deduce the meanings of the Communist words. Whoever is not aware about the differences between the Communist language and the traditional language, does not understand what Communism is. I was born and I have grown in a country occupied by Communist invaders, so I know very well what Communism really is, and it has no relationship with atheism, in the traditional sense of the word. No Communist has ever been atheist, despite their claims, with the possible exception of Karl Marx, who might have been sincere in what he has written. However any later Communist has used the books of Karl Marx only as a propagandistic tool, without caring about whether Karl Marx believed anything of what he has said. Communism is indistinguishable from a monotheistic religion and almost every Communist word and every Communist institution has an exact equivalence in Christian words and institutions. The fact that the Communists have persecuted or killed the priests or the believers belonging to other churches has nothing to do with their claimed atheism, but it has the same nature as the fights between Protestants and Catholics. One can consider Communism as the worst Christian sect, which has done things identical with other past religious excesses, but at a much greater scale. Associating communists with atheists is a huge confusion (which was the purpose of the obfuscated Communist language).
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
    This seems more like an insistence on equating bad things with Christianity. If you take them at their word, Communists were anti-Christian and worked to eradicate Christianity. Yes they believed in something else, but that thing was maybe the state, or the cause of their class.
    - adrian_b 2y ago
      Most Christian variants have worked to eradicate all the other Christian variants. Communists have just acted vs. Christians in the same way as Christians vs. different kinds of Christians, and for the same reasons, i.e. in order to suppress anyone who swears allegiance to different authorities. When discussing communists you cannot "take them at their word", because Communists have always used a special language where a very large number of words have very different meanings than their traditional meanings, for propagandistic purposes. Moreover, even when some phrases should mean the same thing as in normal language, it is more likely than not that they are just lies. Reading any ancient publication from the former communists states requires experience with communist propaganda to understand which sentences are true and which are false.
- Juliate 2y ago
  You seem to imply that morality necessarily finds its source in (the existence of) a god, and/or the religion(s) that may come from there?

gjsman-1000 2y ago

“Religion is the opium of the masses.” - Karl Marx “Religion is the soul of soulless conditions.” - Karl Marx “Communism begins where atheism begins.” - Karl Marx But seriously, there’s a whole Wikipedia article on the origins. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist%E2%80%93Leninist_atheism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist%E2%80%93Leninist_ath... The early communists did not hide this connection. Guess what one of the first agencies in the new USSR was called? The League of Militant Atheists. Ironically, the league was responsible for more deaths by itself than the Inquisition. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists As for why atheism often leads to communism, the reason is fairly simple. Atheists like to pretend that they are only responsible for one tenant of belief: “I don’t believe in a God.” This is not actually true. Imagine if a country puts in a law banning adultery, with heavy fines for doing so. The atheist would likely be angry, even if everyone else in the country agreed with the law. Why should they? There’s no God saying that’s wrong; it’s just a personal opinion like preferring a red car over a blue car. It turns out there’s actually a second tenant: “Any law or penalty or qualm of conscience, imposed solely by religion, without a justifiable ground outside of religion, shall be considered an unjust oppression, which must be destroyed.” An oppression, not live and let live, not merely an inconvenience, even if the majority is fine with it. That’s where violence begins, and the preference for an inherently Godless (and inherently anti-religious) society originates. The two then are as impossible to reconcile as oil and water; one must be comfortably under the thumb of the other if any tolerance is to be had. If one ever loses the upper hand, or the two become an equilibrium, violence will immediately start - an Inquisition on one hand, a League of Militant Atheists on the other.

stickfigure 2y ago
Find another pulpit.
adrian_b 2y ago
All the communists, early or late, have been just liars who have used an obfuscated language, where all important words have meant other things than what the Communists claimed. One cannot judge what Communism is by interpreting literally any text written by a Communist, because all such texts have been just propaganda designed to fool the weaker minds. In order to understand Communism, one must examine what Communists have done, not what they have said. By comparing facts with words, one can deduce the meanings of the Communist words. Whoever is not aware about the differences between the Communist language and the traditional language, does not understand what Communism is. I was born and I have grown in a country occupied by Communist invaders, so I know very well what Communism really is, and it has no relationship with atheism, in the traditional sense of the word. No Communist has ever been atheist, despite their claims, with the possible exception of Karl Marx, who might have been sincere in what he has written. However any later Communist has used the books of Karl Marx only as a propagandistic tool, without caring about whether Karl Marx believed anything of what he has said. Communism is indistinguishable from a monotheistic religion and almost every Communist word and every Communist institution has an exact equivalence in Christian words and institutions. The fact that the Communists have persecuted or killed the priests or the believers belonging to other churches has nothing to do with their claimed atheism, but it has the same nature as the fights between Protestants and Catholics. One can consider Communism as the worst Christian sect, which has done things identical with other past religious excesses, but at a much greater scale. Associating communists with atheists is a huge confusion (which was the purpose of the obfuscated Communist language).
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  This seems more like an insistence on equating bad things with Christianity. If you take them at their word, Communists were anti-Christian and worked to eradicate Christianity. Yes they believed in something else, but that thing was maybe the state, or the cause of their class.
  - adrian_b 2y ago
    Most Christian variants have worked to eradicate all the other Christian variants. Communists have just acted vs. Christians in the same way as Christians vs. different kinds of Christians, and for the same reasons, i.e. in order to suppress anyone who swears allegiance to different authorities. When discussing communists you cannot "take them at their word", because Communists have always used a special language where a very large number of words have very different meanings than their traditional meanings, for propagandistic purposes. Moreover, even when some phrases should mean the same thing as in normal language, it is more likely than not that they are just lies. Reading any ancient publication from the former communists states requires experience with communist propaganda to understand which sentences are true and which are false.
Juliate 2y ago
You seem to imply that morality necessarily finds its source in (the existence of) a god, and/or the religion(s) that may come from there?