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The empty space in older cars is definitely a big contributer to how much simpler it was to work on them. Plenty of project cars I owned or worked on that had m

The empty space in older cars is definitely a big contributer to how much simpler it was to work on them. Plenty of project cars I owned or worked on that had more than enough room in the engine bay to actually STAND inside between the frame and engine with the engine / wiring / hoses still present and both feet planted on the ground. Much less daunting and convenient to work on an engine or replace a part when you don't have to take off (and potentially break) a million other parts to get at what you want to replace and you actually have the room to see what you're doing instead of blindly groping around for something vaguely shaped like something you've only seen a picture of. That and the absolute sheer amount of electronics in modern cars. Older cars had the absolute bear minimal amount of wiring to the point that it was entirely plausible to more or less keep the wiring schematic in your head and even (speaking from experience) redo the entire wiring harness front to back on your own with a few different colored rolls of wire from a hardware store yourself. I can't imagine how people getting into the hobby now with newer cars feel looking at the unholy mess of endless amounts of wiring, sensors, mechanical parts all jammed together in tightly packed space efficient layouts probably designed by someone purely working on them in a digital space. On the bright side at least they have youtube and better resources on the Internet to look up how to actually do something though.

The_SamminAter 2y ago
It’s definitely hard(er). I’ve found it’s impossible to get any diagrams or (repair shop) manuals for some dirt-common 2000s/early 2010s vehicles, and have been forced to play many a game of ‘trace the wire.’
- ultimafan 2y ago
  That's true but YouTube has been a godsend. There's been some mid 2000s cars owned by family or friends I've helped them with (including a transmission swap) where we weren't able to get an entirely satisfactory answer from a service or repair manual but we were almost always able to find several hour videos of random guys on YouTube willing to talk their way through even fairly major jobs and even mention hangups/practical advice for doing it the way the manual wouldn't tell you to but will make the job easier in a home garage setting.
jorts 2y ago
I’m comfortable doing mechanical work and when my Honda Fit said I had to remove a shitload of parts just to replace a spark plug I said fuck it and traded it in.
- 3D30497420 2y ago
  My brother had to have something (AC fan?) replaced and it involved removing the entire dash. I've seen photos of this and it looks like the car exploded.
  - phatskat 2y ago
    Some fan in my (late 90s) Taurus wagon was buried behind a bunch of stuff in the engine area and while we didn’t have to take out the whole block, it was still pretty dense and a lot had to move and come out to replace it. And that’s still relatively “simple” compared to today’s cars. In comparison my 80’s Bronco II, I bought it from my neighbor for $300 and my dad told me I’d fix whatever broke myself if I could. Gave me a service manual that had schematics and layouts of just about every part of that car that was serviceable, and the book wasn’t even that thick considering what it detailed. I was able to pin out some repurposed Christmas lights for the dash in a pinch, and we tore down and rebuilt some component from under the hood ourselves though I don’t recall exactly what now.
- MisterTea 2y ago
  Friend has a Fiat 500 which had to have the engine removed to access the AC compressor to change it. Cost her $3000. Mostly labor.
- uriah 2y ago
  I've had a knee-jerk reaction to that job too. But realistically optimizing spark plug changes isn't really important like the old days where you needed to change them every 10k miles or less. It's maybe 2-3 times in the entire life of the car. Removing the wipers and windshield cowl is generally easy, just takes some extra time. Dealers/mechanics charge for time, not difficulty. So that simple 2hr job can easily be 500-600+. Still something that could be a rewarding Saturday morning project for someone who likes doing DIY type stuff.
iknowstuff 2y ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModel3/comments/r9lfqt/installing_the_electric_frunk_opener_and_admiring/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModel3/comments/r9lfqt/install... Idk man seems like plenty of space to me. Also comes with service mode which shows all the inner working and status of components: https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/2046/tesla-service-mode-how-to-access-it-and-what-it-does https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/2046/tesla-service-mode-ho...
- hattmall 2y ago
  There's basically nothing you can even work on in there though.
  - Jimmc414 2y ago
    Rich Benoit would disagree https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuAMczraBIM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuAMczraBIM
- ultimafan 2y ago
  It's definitely not a hard and fast rule for everything. You'll find older cars with head scratching design and poor engine bays. And newer cars with more room and sensible design than you'd expect. But as a general rule from experience the exceptions seem to be mostly outliers.
- nucleardog 2y ago
  Not sure how fair of a comparison that is given how much of what makes that vehicle go is not in that bay, but an example more of what he's talking about... A relative drives an old truck. This is more or less his engine bay: https://www.onallcylinders.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/charlotte-034-2-1600x1200.jpg https://www.onallcylinders.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/ch... I've walked into his garage and found him inside the engine bay with a stool, sitting down and working on something. Where-as I drive a newer car, and this is similar to mine: https://i.redd.it/4ks75mma4pmb1.jpg https://i.redd.it/4ks75mma4pmb1.jpg
anjel 2y ago
My Prius requires a proprietary tool to change the oil.

The_SamminAter 2y ago

It’s definitely hard(er). I’ve found it’s impossible to get any diagrams or (repair shop) manuals for some dirt-common 2000s/early 2010s vehicles, and have been forced to play many a game of ‘trace the wire.’

ultimafan 2y ago
That's true but YouTube has been a godsend. There's been some mid 2000s cars owned by family or friends I've helped them with (including a transmission swap) where we weren't able to get an entirely satisfactory answer from a service or repair manual but we were almost always able to find several hour videos of random guys on YouTube willing to talk their way through even fairly major jobs and even mention hangups/practical advice for doing it the way the manual wouldn't tell you to but will make the job easier in a home garage setting.

jorts 2y ago

I’m comfortable doing mechanical work and when my Honda Fit said I had to remove a shitload of parts just to replace a spark plug I said fuck it and traded it in.

3D30497420 2y ago
My brother had to have something (AC fan?) replaced and it involved removing the entire dash. I've seen photos of this and it looks like the car exploded.
- phatskat 2y ago
  Some fan in my (late 90s) Taurus wagon was buried behind a bunch of stuff in the engine area and while we didn’t have to take out the whole block, it was still pretty dense and a lot had to move and come out to replace it. And that’s still relatively “simple” compared to today’s cars. In comparison my 80’s Bronco II, I bought it from my neighbor for $300 and my dad told me I’d fix whatever broke myself if I could. Gave me a service manual that had schematics and layouts of just about every part of that car that was serviceable, and the book wasn’t even that thick considering what it detailed. I was able to pin out some repurposed Christmas lights for the dash in a pinch, and we tore down and rebuilt some component from under the hood ourselves though I don’t recall exactly what now.
MisterTea 2y ago
Friend has a Fiat 500 which had to have the engine removed to access the AC compressor to change it. Cost her $3000. Mostly labor.
uriah 2y ago
I've had a knee-jerk reaction to that job too. But realistically optimizing spark plug changes isn't really important like the old days where you needed to change them every 10k miles or less. It's maybe 2-3 times in the entire life of the car. Removing the wipers and windshield cowl is generally easy, just takes some extra time. Dealers/mechanics charge for time, not difficulty. So that simple 2hr job can easily be 500-600+. Still something that could be a rewarding Saturday morning project for someone who likes doing DIY type stuff.

iknowstuff 2y ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModel3/comments/r9lfqt/installing_the_electric_frunk_opener_and_admiring/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModel3/comments/r9lfqt/install... Idk man seems like plenty of space to me. Also comes with service mode which shows all the inner working and status of components: https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/2046/tesla-service-mode-how-to-access-it-and-what-it-does https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/2046/tesla-service-mode-ho...

hattmall 2y ago
There's basically nothing you can even work on in there though.
- Jimmc414 2y ago
  Rich Benoit would disagree https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuAMczraBIM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuAMczraBIM
ultimafan 2y ago
It's definitely not a hard and fast rule for everything. You'll find older cars with head scratching design and poor engine bays. And newer cars with more room and sensible design than you'd expect. But as a general rule from experience the exceptions seem to be mostly outliers.
nucleardog 2y ago
Not sure how fair of a comparison that is given how much of what makes that vehicle go is not in that bay, but an example more of what he's talking about... A relative drives an old truck. This is more or less his engine bay: https://www.onallcylinders.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/charlotte-034-2-1600x1200.jpg https://www.onallcylinders.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/ch... I've walked into his garage and found him inside the engine bay with a stool, sitting down and working on something. Where-as I drive a newer car, and this is similar to mine: https://i.redd.it/4ks75mma4pmb1.jpg https://i.redd.it/4ks75mma4pmb1.jpg

anjel 2y ago

My Prius requires a proprietary tool to change the oil.