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Oh good timing, I've been writing poetry for the first time ever for the past week. Not about to share it anywhere. But, they both look like mostly honest pers

Oh good timing, I've been writing poetry for the first time ever for the past week. Not about to share it anywhere. But, they both look like mostly honest perspectives from particular types of people. I see the first one and think of all the out of touch HS teachers I had who were so convinced their class was important and they were going to teach me an important life lesson and save me from underachieving by being hard on me in some way (usually being super strict on deadlines, or the guy who let me turn in my test with the back side not complete and didn't tell me or let me retry for partial credit - both my fault, but they taught me nothing). They had no concern for the fact I was just trying to get through the day. They just saw someone with potential who needed to learn from their mistakes by being held accountable. But I had missed deadlines in every class I ever took since middle school, if I could have just taught myself executive functioning and how to have a stable home life, I would have. The second reminds me of a lot of some of my friends. They are anxious wrecks, obsessesing over the news constantly, meanwhile compulsively using social media to make calls for action and bring important things that they can't really actually impact to light. All the while, their personal life and mental health is a wreck, which they also loudly proclaim on social media. So I think both poems were great insights into those perspectives. It's just that those perspectives are not exactly interesting and are sometimes a bit annoying.

Spivak 2y ago
Both poems could be read as satires of exactly the type of people you describe and I think that would that would cause them to wrap around and be good again. And I'm not entirely sure what to think of that— it's simultaneously an example of how works can't really be divorced from the context in which they were created, but also an example of "the art" being created in the space between the author and the reader. It reminds me of https://poets.org/poem/antigonish-i-met-man-who-wasnt-there https://poets.org/poem/antigonish-i-met-man-who-wasnt-there where in-context the poem is mediocre. But without the context it's really good, it conjures in your mind all kinds of strange interpretations.
DiggyJohnson 2y ago
> strict on deadlines, or the guy who let me turn in my test with the back side not complete and didn't tell me or let me retry for partial credit - both my fault This is confusing. How can you argue that those experiences didn't teach you anything?
- sudosteph 2y ago
  Because that would imply I had the capacity to change my future behavior based on those experiences. In reality, I had already faced consequences for late work and poor attention detail many times over my school career. Actually, that happened in nearly every grade and class I'd ever taken. But I was a good test taker and preferred to read in class rather than talk, so nobody bothered to evaluate me for ADHD. No amount of facing consequences for your mistakes will suddenly make ADHD go away. And if your home life is chaotic and unsupportive, you're not going to just be able to develop sufficient coping mechanisms on your own to function on par with expectations, even if you have strengths in other areas. But those experiences did teach me a little something. They taught me to be grateful that most teachers are decent, forgiving individuals with policies for partial credit when you're late, because they'd rather see you engaged in learning than discourage you from even trying to finish the assignment. These days schools mostly aren't allowed to dish out straight 0s that can't be improved. And FWIW, nearly all of my college courses had policies for partial credit too. Now I actually have ways to manage my natural executive functioning deficits, so I'm better at that kind of stuff.
  - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
    As someone who can relate somewhat, I don't think you are accounting for the fact that accommodating these symptoms is nearly impossible in an academic environment. > These days schools mostly aren't allowed to dish out straight 0s that can't be improved. And FWIW, nearly all of my college courses had policies for partial credit too. The state of pedagogy is in turmoil. Grade inflation and downright academic fraud are at all time highs. Students leave high school and college knowing less than ever. Please keep in mind that I understand how hard it is to operate with an executive function deficit. I just don't think you're considering the ramifications of implementing your preferences beyond their impacts to you. I think there are plenty of "decent, forgiving" teachers that still enforce reasonably strict requirements even if they don't double check the back page of every test or give partial credit for habitually late work. I have been asked to leave jobs before due to executive function issues and the same diagnosis. Trust me I'm not denying that this issue exists and that it's real issue for you personally.

Spivak 2y ago

Both poems could be read as satires of exactly the type of people you describe and I think that would that would cause them to wrap around and be good again. And I'm not entirely sure what to think of that— it's simultaneously an example of how works can't really be divorced from the context in which they were created, but also an example of "the art" being created in the space between the author and the reader. It reminds me of https://poets.org/poem/antigonish-i-met-man-who-wasnt-there https://poets.org/poem/antigonish-i-met-man-who-wasnt-there where in-context the poem is mediocre. But without the context it's really good, it conjures in your mind all kinds of strange interpretations.

DiggyJohnson 2y ago

> strict on deadlines, or the guy who let me turn in my test with the back side not complete and didn't tell me or let me retry for partial credit - both my fault This is confusing. How can you argue that those experiences didn't teach you anything?

sudosteph 2y ago
Because that would imply I had the capacity to change my future behavior based on those experiences. In reality, I had already faced consequences for late work and poor attention detail many times over my school career. Actually, that happened in nearly every grade and class I'd ever taken. But I was a good test taker and preferred to read in class rather than talk, so nobody bothered to evaluate me for ADHD. No amount of facing consequences for your mistakes will suddenly make ADHD go away. And if your home life is chaotic and unsupportive, you're not going to just be able to develop sufficient coping mechanisms on your own to function on par with expectations, even if you have strengths in other areas. But those experiences did teach me a little something. They taught me to be grateful that most teachers are decent, forgiving individuals with policies for partial credit when you're late, because they'd rather see you engaged in learning than discourage you from even trying to finish the assignment. These days schools mostly aren't allowed to dish out straight 0s that can't be improved. And FWIW, nearly all of my college courses had policies for partial credit too. Now I actually have ways to manage my natural executive functioning deficits, so I'm better at that kind of stuff.
- DiggyJohnson 2y ago
  As someone who can relate somewhat, I don't think you are accounting for the fact that accommodating these symptoms is nearly impossible in an academic environment. > These days schools mostly aren't allowed to dish out straight 0s that can't be improved. And FWIW, nearly all of my college courses had policies for partial credit too. The state of pedagogy is in turmoil. Grade inflation and downright academic fraud are at all time highs. Students leave high school and college knowing less than ever. Please keep in mind that I understand how hard it is to operate with an executive function deficit. I just don't think you're considering the ramifications of implementing your preferences beyond their impacts to you. I think there are plenty of "decent, forgiving" teachers that still enforce reasonably strict requirements even if they don't double check the back page of every test or give partial credit for habitually late work. I have been asked to leave jobs before due to executive function issues and the same diagnosis. Trust me I'm not denying that this issue exists and that it's real issue for you personally.