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I think the form thing is more the issue. These "poems" are not poems. They are prose. Bad prose, but prose. They have no structure, and poetry is structure, th

I think the form thing is more the issue. These "poems" are not poems. They are prose. Bad prose, but prose. They have no structure, and poetry is structure, that is what makes it poetry. The constraints are what make it interesting and sometimes good. The other issue is vocabulary. The "poems" shown here show their authors' very limited vocabularies. Say something interesting within a constrained structure using interesting language and imagery and you have good poetry. Trite sentiments expressed in "free verse" using ordinary words you would find in any random tweet or blog post or casual conversation, with no imagery? It is so pretentious to call it poetry.

taeric 2y ago
Ah, that is attacking what makes these bad poems, as it were? I was more looking at the "go viral" part and feel that is explained enough by the signaling point. Not just in what the alleged poem itself may signal, but what criticizing or praising it will signal.
nickelpro 2y ago
lmao the author specifically calls you, yes you, out in the post: > Talky free verse, prose poetry, or spoken word—while seemingly accessible—can also upset readers whose major exposure to poetry was through high school English. The absence of traditional markers they studied in class, like end-rhyme or meter, becomes instant evidence that something is “not real poetry” for this perpetually precocious crowd. I thought this was half sarcasm when I read it, but no, here you are, in the comments.
- milesrout 2y ago
  Yes I read the same post. What I said remains true. "Talky free verse" and "prose poetry" are misnomers. They aren't poetry. It has nothing to do with what I "studied in class". Words have definitions and "poetry" is meaningless if it means "anything written down at all".
  - nickelpro 2y ago
    We've been searching for the bounds of art, poetry, and music, for millennia without any hope of definition or finality. Thankfully HN user milesrout figured it out. That's a load off my mind.
    - weregiraffe 2y ago
      You can't make people accept your point of view by being a snob. The poetry 99.99% of people are exposed to are song lyrics, and they have structure.
      - nickelpro 2y ago
        99.99% of people are exposed to math as multiplication tables, algebra, and geometry. I don't let that bother me when I need Fourier and Laplace, and I'm not interested in making others accept that there is more to these fields than what they learned in primary school. It's just very funny. I couldn't imagine being an adult and stubbornly insisting that you don't like the spaghetti because it's not how your mom made it for you and that's the only way spaghetti is supposed to be made. This sort of self-centered and yet entirely unselfconscious world view where you never question why you think such definitions and boundaries are fundamental truths, eternal and unbending.
        taeric 2y ago
        I get your point, but I do have to ask what differentiates poetry from prose, in this definition?
        nickelpro 2y ago
        These are elements of genre, any taxonomy of human expression naturally escapes the ability to be concretely defined. You can no more give a succinct, definitive differentiation between prose and poetry than you can between Rock&Roll and Pop music, or between Modernist and Expressionist painting. To wit, you'll find there's a large amount of literature about "prose poetry", the most well known form being free verse. The idea being to capture or express some elements of poetry outside merely rhyme and meter. Which elements? How many are required to be considered "real" poetry? I can no more define that than Justice Stewart could define pornography [1]. This obsession with strict taxonomy is itself a shibboleth of the juvenile. What value does strict differentiation provide, if one exists at all? It is a poem because I deign it to be so, and my friends understand what I mean when say this thing I have made is a poem and that thing I have made is a short story. There are a set of characteristics these labels may imply (and such implications make them useful), but none are required, some may even be mutually exclusive. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it

taeric 2y ago

Ah, that is attacking what makes these bad poems, as it were? I was more looking at the "go viral" part and feel that is explained enough by the signaling point. Not just in what the alleged poem itself may signal, but what criticizing or praising it will signal.

nickelpro 2y ago

lmao the author specifically calls you, yes you, out in the post: > Talky free verse, prose poetry, or spoken word—while seemingly accessible—can also upset readers whose major exposure to poetry was through high school English. The absence of traditional markers they studied in class, like end-rhyme or meter, becomes instant evidence that something is “not real poetry” for this perpetually precocious crowd. I thought this was half sarcasm when I read it, but no, here you are, in the comments.

milesrout 2y ago
Yes I read the same post. What I said remains true. "Talky free verse" and "prose poetry" are misnomers. They aren't poetry. It has nothing to do with what I "studied in class". Words have definitions and "poetry" is meaningless if it means "anything written down at all".
- nickelpro 2y ago
  We've been searching for the bounds of art, poetry, and music, for millennia without any hope of definition or finality. Thankfully HN user milesrout figured it out. That's a load off my mind.
  - weregiraffe 2y ago
    You can't make people accept your point of view by being a snob. The poetry 99.99% of people are exposed to are song lyrics, and they have structure.
    - nickelpro 2y ago
      99.99% of people are exposed to math as multiplication tables, algebra, and geometry. I don't let that bother me when I need Fourier and Laplace, and I'm not interested in making others accept that there is more to these fields than what they learned in primary school. It's just very funny. I couldn't imagine being an adult and stubbornly insisting that you don't like the spaghetti because it's not how your mom made it for you and that's the only way spaghetti is supposed to be made. This sort of self-centered and yet entirely unselfconscious world view where you never question why you think such definitions and boundaries are fundamental truths, eternal and unbending.
      - taeric 2y ago
        I get your point, but I do have to ask what differentiates poetry from prose, in this definition?
        nickelpro 2y ago
        These are elements of genre, any taxonomy of human expression naturally escapes the ability to be concretely defined. You can no more give a succinct, definitive differentiation between prose and poetry than you can between Rock&Roll and Pop music, or between Modernist and Expressionist painting. To wit, you'll find there's a large amount of literature about "prose poetry", the most well known form being free verse. The idea being to capture or express some elements of poetry outside merely rhyme and meter. Which elements? How many are required to be considered "real" poetry? I can no more define that than Justice Stewart could define pornography [1]. This obsession with strict taxonomy is itself a shibboleth of the juvenile. What value does strict differentiation provide, if one exists at all? It is a poem because I deign it to be so, and my friends understand what I mean when say this thing I have made is a poem and that thing I have made is a short story. There are a set of characteristics these labels may imply (and such implications make them useful), but none are required, some may even be mutually exclusive. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it