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>If you don't want money and it's not a scam, why are you emailing them? It may be shocking to you, but some security researchers notify companies when they ar

>If you don't want money and it's not a scam, why are you emailing them? It may be shocking to you, but some security researchers notify companies when they are exposing data of their customers. That's it! Simple. When I notice that thousands of people's personal information is available, I also will email the company and let them know that they are exposing the information of their customers. I don't want money in return. My hobby is security, my payment is knowing that I helped thousands of people out. >I would NOT be happy to receive such an email. You would rather just continue to expose your customer's information? Interesting... I don't think you have the ethical high ground here, if that is your position.

DangitBobby 2y ago
[flagged]
- ziddoap 2y ago
  Does the CEO know what?
  - DangitBobby 2y ago
    The motivations behind the researcher emailing them.
    - ziddoap 2y ago
      If my first email contains everything required for you to locate and fix your security issue, my motivations are pretty clear.
      - DangitBobby 2y ago
        Your motivations are clear to you, the person drafting the email. If they were clear to the CEO, he likely would not have responded the way he did. Look, I understand that you reached out with the best of intentions and that my criticism is not welcome, mainly because of that. What you are doing is important. I just think if you added a bit more info to your initial email about what you want, things could have gone differently.
        JayeLTee 2y ago
        Motivations are stated after I explain why I'm emailing. "I'm an independent researcher who posts under the name JayeLTee. I look for publicly exposed data online on my free time and alert the companies affected to try and close the exposure." There is nothing more than that, want me to make a fairy tale story to tell the companies? I try to be as clear as possible and pass the message as clean as possible with no BS on the email, again because I'm not selling a product or a service.
        DangitBobby 2y ago
        Yes, I did read this line in your email. Possibly the CEO didn't after his trusted rockstar team told him the issue was fixed and that they were un-hackable. Look, I think you could change up your initial email slightly to reach a higher probability of positive interactions. You are welcome to disregard my opinion.
- gs17 2y ago
  While it's hard to convey "this is 100% not a scam" without sounding suspicious, in the example of this article they tried to get it across at the very start. It's on the CEO for becoming hostile to someone who asked for nothing in return and wasn't making any threat.
- chrisoverzero 2y ago
  > First of all, please do not ignore this email, this is not a scam attempt nor am I trying to sell anything, I am just alerting and looking for help closing down a security issue […] This seems like a good hint.
  - DangitBobby 2y ago
    I can't tell if people are being deliberately dense as a way of punishing me for having a critical opinion, not reading the rest of the comments before responding to me, or genuinely do not understand what I am getting at. A hallmark of a nefarious email (particularly scams but some sales attempts) is that they aim to deceive you. Humans famously have the capability of lying. Someone telling me they are _not_ selling something or scamming me doesn't actually tell me what they want, and it does not provide me with enough information to know that they are not, in fact, scamming me. It just lets me know they don't want me to think I am being scammed.
    - ziddoap 2y ago
      >A hallmark of a nefarious email (particularly scams but some sales attempts) is that they aim to deceive you. The very first email has literally everything the company needs to locate and fix the issue without having to sign anything, log into anything, or pay anything. That is the opposite of a nefarious email. Nefarious "beg bounty" emails will tell you that you have an issue and then not tell you where it is -- asking for money before revealing the issue.
    - quesera 2y ago
      FWIW, I get several of these emails per week, as the first-reader of security@ emails, and they're almost always scams, sales pitches, or poorly-disguised bounty sniffers. I can't even count the number of times I've been informed that Wordpress.com (.com, not self-hosted) has severe vulnerabilities. And those are the plausible reports. But I always respond professionally and with civility, obviously, because if they have useful information for me, I want to hear it. In defense of the researcher: Their message was better than most, and explained the issue found directly instead of couching it in BS claims. That's good. In criticism of the researcher: They should have linked to their website where they publish reports, and been more plain about their modus operandi from the outset. Let the company know exactly who they're dealing with, and what to expect. Stating it in a sentence is "good", but linking to the evidence is much more credible. I've been on both sides of this relationship. My dumbest experience was with a large bank (HQ in the Netherlands, but operating in several countries including the US and AU, and now acquired by a US bank). I reported a total account compromise vulnerability which would affect 12.5% of their users. I thought my email would be well-received and the (very simple and externally-obvious) issue quickly resolved. Instead I got threats and hostility from some SVP IS nitwit. I told him to go pound sand obviously, and it took them a week to fix the problem. My SO was a customer (which is the only reason I noticed the issue), but not for long. :)

DangitBobby 2y ago

[flagged]

ziddoap 2y ago
Does the CEO know what?
- DangitBobby 2y ago
  The motivations behind the researcher emailing them.
  - ziddoap 2y ago
    If my first email contains everything required for you to locate and fix your security issue, my motivations are pretty clear.
    - DangitBobby 2y ago
      Your motivations are clear to you, the person drafting the email. If they were clear to the CEO, he likely would not have responded the way he did. Look, I understand that you reached out with the best of intentions and that my criticism is not welcome, mainly because of that. What you are doing is important. I just think if you added a bit more info to your initial email about what you want, things could have gone differently.
      - JayeLTee 2y ago
        Motivations are stated after I explain why I'm emailing. "I'm an independent researcher who posts under the name JayeLTee. I look for publicly exposed data online on my free time and alert the companies affected to try and close the exposure." There is nothing more than that, want me to make a fairy tale story to tell the companies? I try to be as clear as possible and pass the message as clean as possible with no BS on the email, again because I'm not selling a product or a service.
        DangitBobby 2y ago
        Yes, I did read this line in your email. Possibly the CEO didn't after his trusted rockstar team told him the issue was fixed and that they were un-hackable. Look, I think you could change up your initial email slightly to reach a higher probability of positive interactions. You are welcome to disregard my opinion.
gs17 2y ago
While it's hard to convey "this is 100% not a scam" without sounding suspicious, in the example of this article they tried to get it across at the very start. It's on the CEO for becoming hostile to someone who asked for nothing in return and wasn't making any threat.
chrisoverzero 2y ago
> First of all, please do not ignore this email, this is not a scam attempt nor am I trying to sell anything, I am just alerting and looking for help closing down a security issue […] This seems like a good hint.
- DangitBobby 2y ago
  I can't tell if people are being deliberately dense as a way of punishing me for having a critical opinion, not reading the rest of the comments before responding to me, or genuinely do not understand what I am getting at. A hallmark of a nefarious email (particularly scams but some sales attempts) is that they aim to deceive you. Humans famously have the capability of lying. Someone telling me they are _not_ selling something or scamming me doesn't actually tell me what they want, and it does not provide me with enough information to know that they are not, in fact, scamming me. It just lets me know they don't want me to think I am being scammed.
  - ziddoap 2y ago
    >A hallmark of a nefarious email (particularly scams but some sales attempts) is that they aim to deceive you. The very first email has literally everything the company needs to locate and fix the issue without having to sign anything, log into anything, or pay anything. That is the opposite of a nefarious email. Nefarious "beg bounty" emails will tell you that you have an issue and then not tell you where it is -- asking for money before revealing the issue.
  - quesera 2y ago
    FWIW, I get several of these emails per week, as the first-reader of security@ emails, and they're almost always scams, sales pitches, or poorly-disguised bounty sniffers. I can't even count the number of times I've been informed that Wordpress.com (.com, not self-hosted) has severe vulnerabilities. And those are the plausible reports. But I always respond professionally and with civility, obviously, because if they have useful information for me, I want to hear it. In defense of the researcher: Their message was better than most, and explained the issue found directly instead of couching it in BS claims. That's good. In criticism of the researcher: They should have linked to their website where they publish reports, and been more plain about their modus operandi from the outset. Let the company know exactly who they're dealing with, and what to expect. Stating it in a sentence is "good", but linking to the evidence is much more credible. I've been on both sides of this relationship. My dumbest experience was with a large bank (HQ in the Netherlands, but operating in several countries including the US and AU, and now acquired by a US bank). I reported a total account compromise vulnerability which would affect 12.5% of their users. I thought my email would be well-received and the (very simple and externally-obvious) issue quickly resolved. Instead I got threats and hostility from some SVP IS nitwit. I told him to go pound sand obviously, and it took them a week to fix the problem. My SO was a customer (which is the only reason I noticed the issue), but not for long. :)