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Maybe the next administration should keep up the tariffs (as Biden did to a degree). Cheap trade with China distorts the tech sector too. Jobs and Wozniak were

Maybe the next administration should keep up the tariffs (as Biden did to a degree). Cheap trade with China distorts the tech sector too. Jobs and Wozniak were the products of a system in which americans had to build products at home. Tim Cook is the product of a system where you can become a trillion company by hyper-optimizing foreign supply chains. Which is better?

ipaddr 2y ago
Apple went bankrupt under Jobs and Wozniak and was saved by hyper optimizing foreign supply chain company Microsoft only to rise 10 years later by focusing on hyper optimizing foreign supply.
- relistan 2y ago
  There was a lot more than that going on and I think you've pretty generally mischaracterized the main problem with the mid-80's era Apple—which had nothing to do with domestic manufacturing and everything to do with not delivering new products that people wanted, at a reasonable price. You can claim overseas manufacturing solved the pricing component of that, but that's not at all clear: other companies were manufacturing in the US at the time and still out-competing Apple.
- bluedino 2y ago
  All of the big PC companies had factories in Texas in the 80's and early 90's, didn't they? And Dell became a case study of outsourcing everything (and sending your stock and profits soaring the whole time), until you have nothing.
- coliveira 2y ago
  I don't know about Microsoft, but I'm very clear that the "miracle" operated by Apple was exactly to perfect foreign supply chain at a time when Intel/Dell/HP and others were still heavily focused on the US. The quality of Apple products was already there since the beginning, but they had no way to compete with the PC market until they figured out Asian supply chains.
- sgerenser 2y ago
  That timeline isn’t even close to accurate. Apple was doing quite well in the 80s when Jobs and Wozniak were there. In the early/mid 90s was when they started going downhill (well after Jobs was gone), and by that time they had already outsourced a lot of their manufacturing (computers in Cork, Ireland and Singapore, and motherboards/components in places like Taiwan).
hypeatei 2y ago
When did isolationism become cool? Isn't this why we declared independence in the first place? To get away from the British restricting free trade?
- margorczynski 2y ago
  > When did isolationism become cool? Ask maybe China.
  - swiftcoder 2y ago
    China's economic power is certainly not rooted in their isolationist social policies. They're just as bullish about foreign investment as the US was at the height of the free trade era.
- lenerdenator 2y ago
  When the people with the money decided it was better spent in places that weren't their own country.
  - bootsmann 2y ago
    Having access to cheap oversea steel allows Americans to focus on building companies with significantly higher value-add. Onshoring low-value industries is a massive human capital waste and an easy way to depress wages.
    - lenerdenator 2y ago
      It allows a very small portion of Americans to build companies with significantly higher value-add. It destroyed the futures of a larger number of Americans. Then again, why do we make the distinction "American"? If you have people who became unfathomably wealthy by shipping off strategic industries to the lowest bidder regardless of geopolitical implications, does nationality matter anymore?
      - 2y ago
boringg 2y ago
A bit revisionist here.
hooverd 2y ago
If Trump is our McKinley or Hoover, I'm excited for our next FDR.

ipaddr 2y ago

Apple went bankrupt under Jobs and Wozniak and was saved by hyper optimizing foreign supply chain company Microsoft only to rise 10 years later by focusing on hyper optimizing foreign supply.

relistan 2y ago
There was a lot more than that going on and I think you've pretty generally mischaracterized the main problem with the mid-80's era Apple—which had nothing to do with domestic manufacturing and everything to do with not delivering new products that people wanted, at a reasonable price. You can claim overseas manufacturing solved the pricing component of that, but that's not at all clear: other companies were manufacturing in the US at the time and still out-competing Apple.
bluedino 2y ago
All of the big PC companies had factories in Texas in the 80's and early 90's, didn't they? And Dell became a case study of outsourcing everything (and sending your stock and profits soaring the whole time), until you have nothing.
coliveira 2y ago
I don't know about Microsoft, but I'm very clear that the "miracle" operated by Apple was exactly to perfect foreign supply chain at a time when Intel/Dell/HP and others were still heavily focused on the US. The quality of Apple products was already there since the beginning, but they had no way to compete with the PC market until they figured out Asian supply chains.
sgerenser 2y ago
That timeline isn’t even close to accurate. Apple was doing quite well in the 80s when Jobs and Wozniak were there. In the early/mid 90s was when they started going downhill (well after Jobs was gone), and by that time they had already outsourced a lot of their manufacturing (computers in Cork, Ireland and Singapore, and motherboards/components in places like Taiwan).

hypeatei 2y ago

When did isolationism become cool? Isn't this why we declared independence in the first place? To get away from the British restricting free trade?

margorczynski 2y ago
> When did isolationism become cool? Ask maybe China.
- swiftcoder 2y ago
  China's economic power is certainly not rooted in their isolationist social policies. They're just as bullish about foreign investment as the US was at the height of the free trade era.
lenerdenator 2y ago
When the people with the money decided it was better spent in places that weren't their own country.
- bootsmann 2y ago
  Having access to cheap oversea steel allows Americans to focus on building companies with significantly higher value-add. Onshoring low-value industries is a massive human capital waste and an easy way to depress wages.
  - lenerdenator 2y ago
    It allows a very small portion of Americans to build companies with significantly higher value-add. It destroyed the futures of a larger number of Americans. Then again, why do we make the distinction "American"? If you have people who became unfathomably wealthy by shipping off strategic industries to the lowest bidder regardless of geopolitical implications, does nationality matter anymore?
    - 2y ago

boringg 2y ago

A bit revisionist here.

hooverd 2y ago

If Trump is our McKinley or Hoover, I'm excited for our next FDR.