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I average about 140kph. Two hours on the Autobahn is around 280km. My 2021 Model Y is rated at 455km in ideal conditions, but has about 340km today in cold cond

I average about 140kph. Two hours on the Autobahn is around 280km. My 2021 Model Y is rated at 455km in ideal conditions, but has about 340km today in cold conditions at Autobahn speeds. Charging at stations isn't from 0-100. It's from 10-80%. This is what Tesla recommends because the last 20% takes even longer than the first 70%, and stresses the battery over time. 70% of 340km is 238km. So in reality, especially in the cold, I get even less than two hours between stops. I could get a little more than two hours if I had the upgraded Long Range Model Y. I'm not disputing that most people drive their cars short distances most of the time. But not all trips are as valuable to people. This concept is called marginal utility. I value my road trips going smoothly *FAR* more than I value my daily commutes going smoothly. For this reason, it's VERY important for me for range to be increased. I won't be buying another EV unless I can get above 1000km real world range. This would, in theory, result in similar trip times to my older ICE vehicle. I am not alone. I strongly believe that unless automakers give EV customers what they want, they won't see the growth they are hoping for. EV customers want a lot more range. You cannot reason them out of their desires.

arghwhat 2y ago
> My 2021 Model Y is rated at 455km in ideal conditions, but has about 340km today in cold conditions at Autobahn speeds. So you're down to 75% capacity, with the first 10% lost to the cold of winter and the rest lost to going 140km/h. The long range Model Y has 600 km rating in ideal conditions, and applying the same loss you'd be at 450 km. The same calculation is 466 km for the upcoming model, more than your car's ideal rating. So seems like you already have much better options available. You can also take 10 km/h off your speed to increase range notably (in any car), and you can go further for road trips outside the winter months. > I value my road trips going smoothly FAR more than I value my daily commutes going smoothly. For this reason, it's VERY important for me for range to be increased. Sure, but it remains a niche use-case, which is fine but unimportant for the industry and the general population and not what cars should be built or optimized for. Range is a liability whenever not in use (batteries are heavy), and cars are always better when optimized for the normal use-case. That's why there's long range models, and it's also fine to take such roadtrips in an ICE should need be.
- Gareth321 2y ago
  > So seems like you already have much better options available. If I upgrade to the new LR and I get, let's say, 480km in the cold and at highway speeds, that would give me 2 hours and 24 minutes between stops. This is still far too limited. I could drive slower, or just not take trips at all, but I expect my car to fit my lifestyle and not the other way around. > Sure, but it remains a niche use-case Longer range consistently tops consumer requirements (https://www.mckinsey.com/features/mckinsey-center-for-future-mobility/our-insights/exploring-consumer-sentiment-on-electric-vehicle-charging https://www.mckinsey.com/features/mckinsey-center-for-future...). You might feel this is a niche issue, but the majority of EV buyers feel it's a very big issue to them. It's clear that you're willing to make sacrifices for smaller batteries, and that's perfectly valid. You must just accept that others value different things.
  - arghwhat 2y ago
    > If I upgrade to the new LR and I get, let's say, 480km in the cold and at highway speeds, that would give me 2 hours and 24 minutes between stops. 480 km in the cold at highway speeds is 140 km more than your previously stated 340 km, which is an hour more at 140 km/h. If you are driving between highway charge stops, it's a bit over 3.5 hours between stops. > Longer range consistently tops consumer requirements It is tied with "availability of chargers equal gas stations" in that report, suggesting that the range concern is not about roadtrips but daily convenience for households without own chargers. Also, answers to a questionaire for "EV skeptical" people about why they haven't purchased an EV isn't representative of actual needs. People when asked about range answer that way because they're comparing to what they already have and have to make up an answer to justify their decisions, not because of need. > You must just accept that others value different things. And you must accept that your values does not equal the actual needs of the general population, which can be quite easily assessed based on normal worklife patterns. I'm sure we can agree that any vehicle is objectively best if it is optimized for your actual needs, and that the more often it fit your need the better. This makes it quite simple: Does your daily driving equal roadtrips, yes or no? If not, you will get an objectively better experience (better handling, less noise, less energy/fuel cost, less tire wear, faster charging to full) while simultaneously saving your bank account and the environment. And no, a dialy driver doesn't mean "renault zoe", it just means "smaller and lighter battery". If you drive 1 roadtrip per year or less, it makes sense to rent the car for roadtrip to get the best of both worlds: the best roadtrip machine and the best daily driver, which are mutually exclusive requirements. The roadtrip vehicle might be a large, comfortable ICE car with below average fuel economy and plenty of space - maybe even pulling a camping wagon depending on what you want to do on roadtrips. If you drive 2+ roadtrips per year, maybe it starts to make sense to buy a roadtrip-specific secondary vehicle. If you drive much more than that (e.g., every weekend, or daily work involves multi-hour driving), then it starts to make sense financially to compromise and use a roadtrip vehicle for daily driving.

arghwhat 2y ago

> My 2021 Model Y is rated at 455km in ideal conditions, but has about 340km today in cold conditions at Autobahn speeds. So you're down to 75% capacity, with the first 10% lost to the cold of winter and the rest lost to going 140km/h. The long range Model Y has 600 km rating in ideal conditions, and applying the same loss you'd be at 450 km. The same calculation is 466 km for the upcoming model, more than your car's ideal rating. So seems like you already have much better options available. You can also take 10 km/h off your speed to increase range notably (in any car), and you can go further for road trips outside the winter months. > I value my road trips going smoothly FAR more than I value my daily commutes going smoothly. For this reason, it's VERY important for me for range to be increased. Sure, but it remains a niche use-case, which is fine but unimportant for the industry and the general population and not what cars should be built or optimized for. Range is a liability whenever not in use (batteries are heavy), and cars are always better when optimized for the normal use-case. That's why there's long range models, and it's also fine to take such roadtrips in an ICE should need be.

Gareth321 2y ago
> So seems like you already have much better options available. If I upgrade to the new LR and I get, let's say, 480km in the cold and at highway speeds, that would give me 2 hours and 24 minutes between stops. This is still far too limited. I could drive slower, or just not take trips at all, but I expect my car to fit my lifestyle and not the other way around. > Sure, but it remains a niche use-case Longer range consistently tops consumer requirements (https://www.mckinsey.com/features/mckinsey-center-for-future-mobility/our-insights/exploring-consumer-sentiment-on-electric-vehicle-charging https://www.mckinsey.com/features/mckinsey-center-for-future...). You might feel this is a niche issue, but the majority of EV buyers feel it's a very big issue to them. It's clear that you're willing to make sacrifices for smaller batteries, and that's perfectly valid. You must just accept that others value different things.
- arghwhat 2y ago
  > If I upgrade to the new LR and I get, let's say, 480km in the cold and at highway speeds, that would give me 2 hours and 24 minutes between stops. 480 km in the cold at highway speeds is 140 km more than your previously stated 340 km, which is an hour more at 140 km/h. If you are driving between highway charge stops, it's a bit over 3.5 hours between stops. > Longer range consistently tops consumer requirements It is tied with "availability of chargers equal gas stations" in that report, suggesting that the range concern is not about roadtrips but daily convenience for households without own chargers. Also, answers to a questionaire for "EV skeptical" people about why they haven't purchased an EV isn't representative of actual needs. People when asked about range answer that way because they're comparing to what they already have and have to make up an answer to justify their decisions, not because of need. > You must just accept that others value different things. And you must accept that your values does not equal the actual needs of the general population, which can be quite easily assessed based on normal worklife patterns. I'm sure we can agree that any vehicle is objectively best if it is optimized for your actual needs, and that the more often it fit your need the better. This makes it quite simple: Does your daily driving equal roadtrips, yes or no? If not, you will get an objectively better experience (better handling, less noise, less energy/fuel cost, less tire wear, faster charging to full) while simultaneously saving your bank account and the environment. And no, a dialy driver doesn't mean "renault zoe", it just means "smaller and lighter battery". If you drive 1 roadtrip per year or less, it makes sense to rent the car for roadtrip to get the best of both worlds: the best roadtrip machine and the best daily driver, which are mutually exclusive requirements. The roadtrip vehicle might be a large, comfortable ICE car with below average fuel economy and plenty of space - maybe even pulling a camping wagon depending on what you want to do on roadtrips. If you drive 2+ roadtrips per year, maybe it starts to make sense to buy a roadtrip-specific secondary vehicle. If you drive much more than that (e.g., every weekend, or daily work involves multi-hour driving), then it starts to make sense financially to compromise and use a roadtrip vehicle for daily driving.