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Germany has a big-nothing economy right now. Compared to that, even a small-software economy is useful. Germany can't live on everyone else's money indefinitely

Germany has a big-nothing economy right now. Compared to that, even a small-software economy is useful. Germany can't live on everyone else's money indefinitely, at some point everyone else is going to get fed up that they have to be paying more tax and higher energy prices because Germany can't sustain itself.

impossiblefork 2y ago
What? They literally build machines that everybody needs to live. They make everything, all sorts of little of bits you need. If you need a special chemical reactor that resists some weird thing, it's probably from Germany.
- touwer 2y ago
  Indeed. Zeiss lenses. Medical equipment. Boss. Siemens. The only thing that's really lacking is ict and ai. But that can be fixed
  - flanked-evergl 2y ago
    Having a company that makes lenses, even really good ones, is not the same as having a viable economy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_economic_crisis_(2022%E2%80%93present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_economic_crisis_(2022%E...
    - impossiblefork 2y ago
      So, you're basically that, if GDP is not up, or the companies are not doing well, it doesn't matter that they're actually building genuinely useful stuff without which all sorts of people would be in major trouble? Germany has problems-- immigration, energy etc., and maybe some companies have problems, but the US has put huge efforts into making something even a tiny bit like the German companies that are actually building stuff, presumably because its leaders know that you can't eat software services no matter how overpriced they are-- in the end actually building things is how you get things, once you are no longer forced to get some critical vitamin through trade, and we are there now.
      - flanked-evergl 2y ago
        I'm saying that not even the nicest, rarest lenses in the world are a replacement for a viable economy. And you can't eat lenses either, and people who do grow food also use software, and so do everyone else that makes about 90% of all the other stuff other than food that constitutes the German economy.
        ginko 2y ago
        Germany is a net exporter of food. https://www.statista.com/statistics/509215/food-industry-import-vs-export-value-germany/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/509215/food-industry-imp...
        flanked-evergl 2y ago
        You know what is not a substitute for a viable economy? Everything except a viable economy. Zimbabwe is also a net exporter of food [1][2]. [1]: https://wits.worldbank.org/CountryProfile/en/Country/ZWE/Year/2022/TradeFlow/Export/Partner/by-region/Product/16-24_FoodProd https://wits.worldbank.org/CountryProfile/en/Country/ZWE/Yea... [2]: https://wits.worldbank.org/CountryProfile/en/Country/ZWE/Year/2022/TradeFlow/Import/Partner/by-region/Product/16-24_FoodProd https://wits.worldbank.org/CountryProfile/en/Country/ZWE/Yea...
        ginko 2y ago
        Germany has a viable economy. It's one of the strongest, most diverse in the world. It's in a recession right now, but we're talking about fluctuations in the 1-percent range here. If you think Germany is anything close to a failed state then all I can tell you that you either fell for lies or intentionally spread lies yourself.
        flanked-evergl 2y ago
        A change from 3.7% to -0.3% is not in the 1-percent range. It's a decline of more than 100%, as all the growth is gone. Their economy has been sliding for years, the only change in trend was when they were helicoptering covid cash. They are done for, they won't recover.
  - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
    Niche businesses like Zeiss Lenses can't support the economy of the EU of 450 Milion people, especially that they mostly hire highly specialize people with PhD and up.
- flanked-evergl 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_economic_crisis_(2022%E2%80%93present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_economic_crisis_(2022%E...
touwer 2y ago
You should read up before making grandiose statements like that. Totally not true. https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2025/01/30/can-germanys-economy-stage-an-unexpected-recovery https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2025/01/30/c...
- flanked-evergl 2y ago
  A theoretical recovery is not an actual recovery, and if history has any lessons, then it's quite unlikely that Germany could economically recover without more US money, which is not coming.

impossiblefork 2y ago

What? They literally build machines that everybody needs to live. They make everything, all sorts of little of bits you need. If you need a special chemical reactor that resists some weird thing, it's probably from Germany.

touwer 2y ago
Indeed. Zeiss lenses. Medical equipment. Boss. Siemens. The only thing that's really lacking is ict and ai. But that can be fixed
- flanked-evergl 2y ago
  Having a company that makes lenses, even really good ones, is not the same as having a viable economy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_economic_crisis_(2022%E2%80%93present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_economic_crisis_(2022%E...
  - impossiblefork 2y ago
    So, you're basically that, if GDP is not up, or the companies are not doing well, it doesn't matter that they're actually building genuinely useful stuff without which all sorts of people would be in major trouble? Germany has problems-- immigration, energy etc., and maybe some companies have problems, but the US has put huge efforts into making something even a tiny bit like the German companies that are actually building stuff, presumably because its leaders know that you can't eat software services no matter how overpriced they are-- in the end actually building things is how you get things, once you are no longer forced to get some critical vitamin through trade, and we are there now.
    - flanked-evergl 2y ago
      I'm saying that not even the nicest, rarest lenses in the world are a replacement for a viable economy. And you can't eat lenses either, and people who do grow food also use software, and so do everyone else that makes about 90% of all the other stuff other than food that constitutes the German economy.
      - ginko 2y ago
        Germany is a net exporter of food. https://www.statista.com/statistics/509215/food-industry-import-vs-export-value-germany/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/509215/food-industry-imp...
        flanked-evergl 2y ago
        You know what is not a substitute for a viable economy? Everything except a viable economy. Zimbabwe is also a net exporter of food [1][2]. [1]: https://wits.worldbank.org/CountryProfile/en/Country/ZWE/Year/2022/TradeFlow/Export/Partner/by-region/Product/16-24_FoodProd https://wits.worldbank.org/CountryProfile/en/Country/ZWE/Yea... [2]: https://wits.worldbank.org/CountryProfile/en/Country/ZWE/Year/2022/TradeFlow/Import/Partner/by-region/Product/16-24_FoodProd https://wits.worldbank.org/CountryProfile/en/Country/ZWE/Yea...
        ginko 2y ago
        Germany has a viable economy. It's one of the strongest, most diverse in the world. It's in a recession right now, but we're talking about fluctuations in the 1-percent range here. If you think Germany is anything close to a failed state then all I can tell you that you either fell for lies or intentionally spread lies yourself.
        flanked-evergl 2y ago
        A change from 3.7% to -0.3% is not in the 1-percent range. It's a decline of more than 100%, as all the growth is gone. Their economy has been sliding for years, the only change in trend was when they were helicoptering covid cash. They are done for, they won't recover.
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago
  Niche businesses like Zeiss Lenses can't support the economy of the EU of 450 Milion people, especially that they mostly hire highly specialize people with PhD and up.
flanked-evergl 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_economic_crisis_(2022%E2%80%93present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_economic_crisis_(2022%E...

touwer 2y ago

You should read up before making grandiose statements like that. Totally not true. https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2025/01/30/can-germanys-economy-stage-an-unexpected-recovery https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2025/01/30/c...

flanked-evergl 2y ago
A theoretical recovery is not an actual recovery, and if history has any lessons, then it's quite unlikely that Germany could economically recover without more US money, which is not coming.