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That's a very wrong reading of history. Our democracies didn't "start good", slavery was legal, workers had very few rights and strikes were brutally broken by

That's a very wrong reading of history. Our democracies didn't "start good", slavery was legal, workers had very few rights and strikes were brutally broken by a police whose only job was to protect the interests of the aristocracy turned bourgeoisie. The weight of a country's law book is no indication of the freedom of its citizen. Our period of instability has been brought upon by a discontent stemming from ever increasing economic inequalities. This isn't the first time it happens: look at the 30s. Europe turned to fascism and was demolished by pointless wars, America turned to social democracy with FDR and the new deal, and became the first hyperpower.

sph 2y ago
Fair enough, I agree with your argument. I am firmly in the camp that democracies are tolerable because they're the least worst of other alternatives. But they're very far away from any notion of good. They're pretty terrible and exploitable. They don't provide any practical countermeasure against greed, lies and general stupidity, which are very real human behaviours.
- thrance 2y ago
  Indeed, but I believe that flaw was deliberately inserted in our constitutions, way back when it was first written. The lack of democracy in our economic processes allows for rampant wealth and power accumulation which invariably leads to discontent. I do not believe that we humans are inherently greedy, no more than I believe we are inherently evil. I won't claim to know what the solution is, but our system needs to somehow stop rewarding greed and other anti-social behaviors.
mrkstu 2y ago
Correlation is not causation. Until the war, FDRs 'reforms' weren't making the country powerful or rich, maybe staunching the bleeding. The buildup of industry for a war footing, the vacuum of the great powers/industries in rubble, large amounts of their intellectual human capital in America and the participants owing America a lot of money is what made America a hyper power after the war- and maybe the GI Bill a bit part. Social security and the WPA had little to nothing to do with America's post war ascent...
- thrance 2y ago
  The situation is definitely more complex than "FDR solved it", but I don't think this kind of economic uptake could have happened in the clogged up economy of the Gilded Age. Breaking monopolies and redistributing tax money through government work programs definitely had an impact.

sph 2y ago

Fair enough, I agree with your argument. I am firmly in the camp that democracies are tolerable because they're the least worst of other alternatives. But they're very far away from any notion of good. They're pretty terrible and exploitable. They don't provide any practical countermeasure against greed, lies and general stupidity, which are very real human behaviours.

thrance 2y ago
Indeed, but I believe that flaw was deliberately inserted in our constitutions, way back when it was first written. The lack of democracy in our economic processes allows for rampant wealth and power accumulation which invariably leads to discontent. I do not believe that we humans are inherently greedy, no more than I believe we are inherently evil. I won't claim to know what the solution is, but our system needs to somehow stop rewarding greed and other anti-social behaviors.

mrkstu 2y ago

Correlation is not causation. Until the war, FDRs 'reforms' weren't making the country powerful or rich, maybe staunching the bleeding. The buildup of industry for a war footing, the vacuum of the great powers/industries in rubble, large amounts of their intellectual human capital in America and the participants owing America a lot of money is what made America a hyper power after the war- and maybe the GI Bill a bit part. Social security and the WPA had little to nothing to do with America's post war ascent...

thrance 2y ago
The situation is definitely more complex than "FDR solved it", but I don't think this kind of economic uptake could have happened in the clogged up economy of the Gilded Age. Breaking monopolies and redistributing tax money through government work programs definitely had an impact.