6 ms·

Why and How I use “Org Mode” for my writing and more (2022)

217 points by sebg 2y ago

adityaathalye 2y ago
Oh hei, HN! Post author here. Of all the giant blog posts I've written (brevity is not my strong suit), this one must have sent me the most traffic... Clearly there is a persistent unmet demand for Org Mode explanations / experience reports. Please write! For non-Emacs users: I've listed a bunch of alternatives that offer useful sub-sets of the Emacs version. On my Android phone, I use orgzly. I don't sync back and forth, preferring to hand-transcribe anything that is worth my while (I type fast enough on my computer). However it's good to know that my notes are just plain text, therefore always accessible. Recent-most epic win of using org-mode: Trivially exported the live demo version [1] of my talk [2] (org-babel) to a single web page [3] (reveal.js deck). It was a remote presentation, so it was great to be able to share the deck with the attendees. [1] clojure-web-app-workshop-functional-conf-2025.org here: https://github.com/adityaathalye/slideware/ https://github.com/adityaathalye/slideware/ (see raw source for export directives) [2] Talk video in this playlist: https://youtu.be/YEHVEId-utY https://youtu.be/YEHVEId-utY (the playlist has video of the example I described in my blog post.) [3] All blog posts are just tiny websites :) https://www.evalapply.org/posts/why-and-how-i-use-org-mode/deck.html https://www.evalapply.org/posts/why-and-how-i-use-org-mode/d... --- Edit: Discussed previously here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34967802 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34967802 (164 points, 159 comments)
- swah 2y ago
  Have you tried Obsidian and can tell us if org-mode still holds some magic sauce from it?
  - adityaathalye 2y ago
    Never tried it. What I have "just works" for me. Also I value having everything local-first in plaintext. The ability to get on with life with the absence of global organisation is my saviour. While any given org file may be well structured, my org files directory is a disaster zone. I just use rgrep and text search to get around. It's great!
  - tonyarkles 2y ago
    Long time Org-moder, 1-year Obsidian user here. I love org-mode with all my heart. I used it to run a consulting company for a decade and organize my entire life (reminder to mail my mom a birthday card? Recurring org task. Task breakdown and schedule for clients? Org.) I used it to keep all of my implementation and debugging notes. I’ve used it like Jupyter notebooks with inline code blocks. I’ve written tons of LaTeX math in it. For what I use it for, Org has a ton of magic sauce that Obsidian doesn’t have for me. But Obsidian has one feature that, sadly, dominates all of that magic: ease of use on iDevices, including offline use. I can sit and work on Obsidian documents on my iPad+keyboard on an airplane without Internet access. I can reference my documents and update my todo lists from my iPhone without needing to SSH somewhere. The sync service is super smooth and the (much smaller) set of features is enough for most of my daily use. I miss org-mode very much though and if I were to change jobs and spend less time work-travelling I would probably switch back to it. One of the biggest reasons that I was comfortable using Obsidian specifically is because the disk format is mostly just Markdown (mod the infinite canvas stuff, which is documented JSON). Being locally-stored Markdown instead of a proprietary format, I feel like there’s a reasonable pathway for me to reimport all of my notes back into Org-mode in the future if I decide to go that way (eg Pandoc)
    - kstrauser 2y ago
      I dabbled with Plain Org a while back when I was considering switching from iA Writer to Org. It can use iCloud to sync. Have you tried that, and if so, what was your experience like? I’d really like to use Org but that same limitation kept me from it. If I could at least view Org docs on the run, and do minor editing to jot quick notes, I think I could make the leap.
      - dotancohen 2y ago
        > If I could at least view Org docs on the run, and do minor editing to jot quick notes, I think I could make the leap. I just mentioned this in another comment here, but I think you would be interested too. I sync Org mode from the desktop to the mobile, and read in orgzly. To record things on mobile, I use voice notes. I'm right now working on a desktop application to transcribe and make voice notes accessible by other means as well. If you're interested then my Gmail username is the same as my HN username.
  - AlanYx 2y ago
    Obsidian is a great app and probably the closest thing spiritually to org-mode for those who aren't interested in emacs, but Obsidian doesn't (currently) come close to the whole package. Just as some examples: outline-centric without plugins (this allows functions like narrowing/hoisting to a particular part of the outline that you can't do in Obsidian), substantially better export/document authoring, org-babel (think Jupyter style notebooks or literate programming) integrated into the core concept, functionality integrated into the core system rather than siloed into plugins (org-agenda is essentially a combo of the dataview plugin and the todo plugin in Obsidian, but built to work together, and completely integrated with things like timekeeping/clocking for those who bill hourly, which is still missing from Obsidian). Plus some of the keyboard-centric stuff in org-mode is just really nice, down to little niceties like how you can manipulate dates and times without clicking around. Then there's all the benefits of emacs on top of that. To some extent a lot of this derives from org's 22 year history. It's a very mature system, with loads of functionality. One strength of Obsidian though is canvas mode. There aren't great emacs solutions like that at the moment.
    - dambi0 2y ago
      Logseq might be worth a look. It supports org-mode files to a degree. There’s a lot of org functionality. You can just about edit the files in emacs directly.
      - AlanYx 2y ago
        The original logseq developer was a heavy org-mode user prior to developing it. Though now that logseq is moving to a database backend rather than plain text files, it's becoming a different type of solution.
        0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
        Is that going to be optional? I have been using log seq, and I really like that it is text based. I write so little that a lifetime of content could easily fit into memory and be searched, unindexed without issue.
  - strobe 2y ago
    I use both, while Obsidian is good and has lot in common but for some reason org-mode still feels more useful and permanent. If it something important for me personally I most likely will put it in 'org' but if I just need write something of temporary nature like documentation peace for work I might prefer Obsidian for that. Also org-mode TODOs/agenda stuff very helpful for triage of tasks and prioritization (I think it's just habit that has some 'migration' cost so I not really considering it as big benefit over other tools)
- dotancohen 2y ago
  > I don't sync back and forth, preferring to hand-transcribe anything that is worth my while (I type fast enough on my computer). However it's good to know that my notes are just plain text, therefore always accessible. I sync Org mode from the desktop to the mobile, and read in orgzly. To record things on mobile, I use voice notes. I'm right now working on a desktop application to transcribe and make voice notes accessible by other means as well. If you're interested then my Gmail username is the same as my HN username.
- c6401 2y ago
  > I use orgzly A couple of alternative options, none of which are perfect, are using Termux with installed Emacs or Logseq, which supports org-mode syntax for files.
simonask 2y ago
I've been interested in Org Mode before, but the thing that always kills it for me is a good synchronization solution. Does anyone have any tips? I regularly access and update my notes on at least 5 different devices, and I often need to share notes with non-technical people, where the barrier of entry needs to be nothing more than a single link they can click. Currently, Google Docs serves that need, but it's not ideal for writing. The ideal solution for me would support using a Git service as the backing store, but the churn of making commits to synchronize has to not get in the way.
- adityaathalye 2y ago
  Post author here. I'm not sure there is any one sync solution. To share with others, org-export and/or `pandoc -f org -t html` may be your friends. Also Github renders a subset org-mode text. What it can render may be good enough for your needs. Alternatively: how about something like this: - Stick the org source files in a private <Syncthing, or Dropbox, or equivalent> folder, so you can privately sync across devices. - Use a file watcher to auto-export selected files to a shared version of the folder so you can share rendered content with others, with permissions. pandoc is an option but it doesn't export all of org. I think it's not a crazy idea to use Emacs itself as your command-line exporter. If you want special org sauce in the export, maybe pass the command line invocation a dedicated init file for export-only use. - Further, because you are familiar with git, it may be not-crazy to run a Github/Gitlab/daemonised "render" action, on push to a remote repo. Once again, using the Emacs binary as the full-blown exporter.
- tetris11 2y ago
  Org-mobile exists[0], but I have yet to meet anyone actually using this protocol in the wild, and requires you to have your own server to mediate from, as well as emacs running on your phone. An alternative is to use Git(hub) as the mediator, and here Orgzly is a decent Android app with Git support[1]. It just has a tendency of clobbering your git log with automatically generated commit messages. It has WebDav capabilities too, so you could use Nextcloud as the mediator instead. There's also Syncthing, which is probably what everyone wants: all devices haves the same info, you commit to VC what you want when you want. My personal workflow? Accept that my desktop is where I do the real planning, and that the mobile is just for quickly looking up stuff in my notes. If I have ideas, I can email them to myself and process them later when I'm back on my desktop. Is it perfect? Far from it. Does it work? yes. 0: https://orgmode.org/manual/Org-Mobile.html https://orgmode.org/manual/Org-Mobile.html 1: https://github.com/orgzly/orgzly-android/pull/1037 https://github.com/orgzly/orgzly-android/pull/1037
theshrike79 2y ago
I used org-mode for more than a decade and I still like it as a format a bit more than Markdown. But the main problem with it is Emacs. I want to use org-mode, but I don't need the hassle that is installing a decently configured emacs in multiple environments and platforms. Eventually I just gave up and went full markdown first with Joplin and currently with Obsidian.
- adityaathalye 2y ago
  Post author here. I agree with the sentiment... Emacs org-mode sticks with me because it grew on me over the years. It's awesome, but it's also a lifestyle :D For your (very legitimate, "just gimme a distro") needs, perhaps Emacs Writing Studio could entice you back into the fold: https://lucidmanager.org/tags/emacs/ https://lucidmanager.org/tags/emacs/
  - tconfrey 2y ago
    Thanks for the pointer to Writing Studio! Note also that LogSeq is an org-mode based PKM (https://discuss.logseq.com/t/logseq-org-mode-compatability/869 https://discuss.logseq.com/t/logseq-org-mode-compatability/8...)
    - adityaathalye 2y ago
      Yeah, LogSeq is listed in my blog post. At the time of the post, I think they were desktop-only. Now I see they have apps for all the big OSes; desktop and mobile. Very cool!
- hitchdev 2y ago
  I wrote a command line tool called "orji" coz of this (still in alpha). I wanted to use orgzly or a text editor and just be able to write templates (in jinja2) or bash scripts to push data in or out of my notes.
- billfruit 2y ago
  What about Obsidian app on Android asking for permission to access all files on the device?
zackham 2y ago
If you're using org-mode and thinking about customizing it a bit more, and/or would like it to serve you in a way that is a bit more aligned with GTD, this reference from Bernt Hansen is without peer and just an incredible contribution: https://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html https://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html
tconfrey 2y ago
"Growing support is easing collaboration via org files." The same month this article was written (4/22) I tried to make the case for org as an interchange format for productivity tools [1] and pointed to most of the same tools supporting org. (Disclosure, my browser extension, BrainTool[2] is listed in the article). I still love the idea of a local-first, plain text model for sharing personal data across productivity apps, but three years on its not clear to me that the momentum has been maintained. Are folks still building new things on top of org? [1] https://braintool.org/2022/04/29/Tools4Thought-should-use-Org-for-interop.html https://braintool.org/2022/04/29/Tools4Thought-should-use-Or... [2] https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/braintool-go-beyond-bookm/fialfmcgpibjgdoeodaondepigiiddio https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/braintool-go-beyond...
- adityaathalye 2y ago
  Post author here... My dream: a grammar or specification for org text. So that someone can make a self-contained parser library (I'm not smart enough). So that others can embed it in all their tools, and so that someone can make an LSP for org text. IMHO, the integration of org-mode into Emacs is a double-edged sword. Great for me, because I get batteries-included writing support. /However/ terrible for distribution. The source code of the canonical implementation is the specification. Unfortunately, it is hardwired to the Emacs binary. That fact alone makes org text verboten to most of the known universe. Even if that weren't true, the absence of a standard makes it incredibly difficult for outsiders to maintain feature-parity of their own implementations with the canon, and with each other.
  - tconfrey 2y ago
    Completely agree, on both counts. Users often ask me how they can edit their BrainTool.org file outside the extension. There's no way I can in good conscience point the average knowledge worker toward installing an emacs distro! FWIW I use orgajs (https://github.com/orgapp/orgajs https://github.com/orgapp/orgajs). Its well-supported and gives me a pretty complete AST. Highly recommend if you're working in JS.
  - internet_points 2y ago
__mharrison__ 2y ago
The problem with org mode (and magit to a somewhat less degree) is that it is tied to emacs. It will never be adopted by 99% of the developer community (or writing community at large). I say this as an emacs user who uses org for my company notes.
- mkesper 2y ago
  And I think a lot of it is because of defaults. Whenever I open an emacs without my usual configuration of doom-emacs I have to admit it looks dated. Add to that default keyboard shortcuts not working and you've alienated practically everyone taking a look at it.
  - subsection1h 2y ago
    > I have to admit it looks dated. I assume this is because most Emacs users, especially Emacs devs, disable the menu bar, tool bar, tab bar, scroll bar, etc. > default keyboard shortcuts not working Yeah, I think a new Emacs installation should prompt the user to choose between something like "Common keyboard shortcuts" and "Classic Emacs shortcuts". It would take me only a few minutes to set up all the common keyboard shortcuts for a new Emacs installation, but I think it should be just one setting.
- BeetleB 2y ago
  > It will never be adopted by 99% of the developer community (or writing community at large). Something that will never be adopted by 99% of folks is totally fine. Most of my SW has less than 1% the adoption of org mode users (and thus less than 99.99% of the dev community will use it). Should I be concerned? Of course not!
- mplanchard 2y ago
  I keep dreaming about writing a standalone org-mode app, but given how much of people's workflows are likely to be deeply tied to custom elisp that calls stuff from emacs' library or other emacs packages, it seems like a fool's errand.
codexb 2y ago
The article comments on it briefly, but doesn't really answer the question -- "Why not just use Markdown?" It's already popular. There's already tons of support for it. What does org-mode give us that markdown doesn't?
- d0mine 2y ago
  There is much more to org-mode than just elegant markup. Here’s a brief overview to get started: https://orgmode.org/features.html https://orgmode.org/features.html (linked the article).
- wrs 2y ago
  Once you pick one of the many “extended Markdowns” (one downside of MD is that there’s no agreement on what it actually is), they’re essentially equivalent. But they’re not easily interchangeable, so what you’re really choosing is not the syntax you want to use, but the environment and ecosystem of tools you want to live in. For example, compare org-mode in Emacs (decades of plugins, open source, TUI-oriented, very nerdy) to Obsidian (Markdown, pretty good plugin selection, closed source, GUI-based, approachable).
- adityaathalye 2y ago
  Well, I feel my whole post is my "why org-mode" swan song :D If I had to pick just one reason: Org-mode's much more regular --- and singular, unlike the many flavours of markdown --- syntax appeals to my sensibilities more. I linked to a post, which I agree with: https://karl-voit.at/2017/09/23/orgmode-as-markup-only/ https://karl-voit.at/2017/09/23/orgmode-as-markup-only/
- BeetleB 2y ago
  Because markdown is a markup, and org mode is an app (with behavior). Can I run source code blocks within a markup document?
jrm4 2y ago
FWIW, I ended up doing a lot of org-mode-like things by starting with https://zim-wiki.org https://zim-wiki.org a VERY long time ago; I use it for notes, scheduling, publishing my own website, and even slides with the s5 thing. Somewhere in there, I gave org-mode 2 or so years and eventually gave it up entirely; it just really plays SO un-nicely with literally everything else. Anyone else looking for this sort of thing, I'd probably point to Obsidian first, but I'll probably stick with zim for the time being.
- stn8188 2y ago
  I also love Zim! Don't get me wrong, Org-mode is cool and everything, but for a lot of what I do I need to just very quickly drop screenshots and a GUI is just easier. I also have a Zim-based website (https://wiki.shielddigitaldesign.com https://wiki.shielddigitaldesign.com) and used it to track all my tasks on my master's thesis.
metalman 2y ago
read blog post, got to link for downloads, got the android, orgzly from fdroid, figured it out, and am useing it for a trip with a lot of steps and stops tommorow it seems intuitive and poke and see what happens friendly.
- adityaathalye 2y ago
  Awesome! Please blog/tweet/skeet/toot about your experience. And definitely let the developer know what you felt worked well and didn't. I'd love to see more apps supporting org plaintext.

217 points by sebg 2y ago

Oh hei, HN! Post author here. Of all the giant blog posts I've written (brevity is not my strong suit), this one must have sent me the most traffic... Clearly there is a persistent unmet demand for Org Mode explanations / experience reports. Please write! For non-Emacs users: I've listed a bunch of alternatives that offer useful sub-sets of the Emacs version. On my Android phone, I use orgzly. I don't sync back and forth, preferring to hand-transcribe anything that is worth my while (I type fast enough on my computer). However it's good to know that my notes are just plain text, therefore always accessible. Recent-most epic win of using org-mode: Trivially exported the live demo version [1] of my talk [2] (org-babel) to a single web page [3] (reveal.js deck). It was a remote presentation, so it was great to be able to share the deck with the attendees. [1] clojure-web-app-workshop-functional-conf-2025.org here: https://github.com/adityaathalye/slideware/ https://github.com/adityaathalye/slideware/ (see raw source for export directives) [2] Talk video in this playlist: https://youtu.be/YEHVEId-utY https://youtu.be/YEHVEId-utY (the playlist has video of the example I described in my blog post.) [3] All blog posts are just tiny websites :) https://www.evalapply.org/posts/why-and-how-i-use-org-mode/deck.html https://www.evalapply.org/posts/why-and-how-i-use-org-mode/d... --- Edit: Discussed previously here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34967802 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34967802 (164 points, 159 comments)

swah 2y ago
Have you tried Obsidian and can tell us if org-mode still holds some magic sauce from it?
- adityaathalye 2y ago
  Never tried it. What I have "just works" for me. Also I value having everything local-first in plaintext. The ability to get on with life with the absence of global organisation is my saviour. While any given org file may be well structured, my org files directory is a disaster zone. I just use rgrep and text search to get around. It's great!
- tonyarkles 2y ago
  Long time Org-moder, 1-year Obsidian user here. I love org-mode with all my heart. I used it to run a consulting company for a decade and organize my entire life (reminder to mail my mom a birthday card? Recurring org task. Task breakdown and schedule for clients? Org.) I used it to keep all of my implementation and debugging notes. I’ve used it like Jupyter notebooks with inline code blocks. I’ve written tons of LaTeX math in it. For what I use it for, Org has a ton of magic sauce that Obsidian doesn’t have for me. But Obsidian has one feature that, sadly, dominates all of that magic: ease of use on iDevices, including offline use. I can sit and work on Obsidian documents on my iPad+keyboard on an airplane without Internet access. I can reference my documents and update my todo lists from my iPhone without needing to SSH somewhere. The sync service is super smooth and the (much smaller) set of features is enough for most of my daily use. I miss org-mode very much though and if I were to change jobs and spend less time work-travelling I would probably switch back to it. One of the biggest reasons that I was comfortable using Obsidian specifically is because the disk format is mostly just Markdown (mod the infinite canvas stuff, which is documented JSON). Being locally-stored Markdown instead of a proprietary format, I feel like there’s a reasonable pathway for me to reimport all of my notes back into Org-mode in the future if I decide to go that way (eg Pandoc)
  - kstrauser 2y ago
    I dabbled with Plain Org a while back when I was considering switching from iA Writer to Org. It can use iCloud to sync. Have you tried that, and if so, what was your experience like? I’d really like to use Org but that same limitation kept me from it. If I could at least view Org docs on the run, and do minor editing to jot quick notes, I think I could make the leap.
    - dotancohen 2y ago
      > If I could at least view Org docs on the run, and do minor editing to jot quick notes, I think I could make the leap. I just mentioned this in another comment here, but I think you would be interested too. I sync Org mode from the desktop to the mobile, and read in orgzly. To record things on mobile, I use voice notes. I'm right now working on a desktop application to transcribe and make voice notes accessible by other means as well. If you're interested then my Gmail username is the same as my HN username.
- AlanYx 2y ago
  Obsidian is a great app and probably the closest thing spiritually to org-mode for those who aren't interested in emacs, but Obsidian doesn't (currently) come close to the whole package. Just as some examples: outline-centric without plugins (this allows functions like narrowing/hoisting to a particular part of the outline that you can't do in Obsidian), substantially better export/document authoring, org-babel (think Jupyter style notebooks or literate programming) integrated into the core concept, functionality integrated into the core system rather than siloed into plugins (org-agenda is essentially a combo of the dataview plugin and the todo plugin in Obsidian, but built to work together, and completely integrated with things like timekeeping/clocking for those who bill hourly, which is still missing from Obsidian). Plus some of the keyboard-centric stuff in org-mode is just really nice, down to little niceties like how you can manipulate dates and times without clicking around. Then there's all the benefits of emacs on top of that. To some extent a lot of this derives from org's 22 year history. It's a very mature system, with loads of functionality. One strength of Obsidian though is canvas mode. There aren't great emacs solutions like that at the moment.
  - dambi0 2y ago
    Logseq might be worth a look. It supports org-mode files to a degree. There’s a lot of org functionality. You can just about edit the files in emacs directly.
    - AlanYx 2y ago
      The original logseq developer was a heavy org-mode user prior to developing it. Though now that logseq is moving to a database backend rather than plain text files, it's becoming a different type of solution.
      - 0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
        Is that going to be optional? I have been using log seq, and I really like that it is text based. I write so little that a lifetime of content could easily fit into memory and be searched, unindexed without issue.
- strobe 2y ago
  I use both, while Obsidian is good and has lot in common but for some reason org-mode still feels more useful and permanent. If it something important for me personally I most likely will put it in 'org' but if I just need write something of temporary nature like documentation peace for work I might prefer Obsidian for that. Also org-mode TODOs/agenda stuff very helpful for triage of tasks and prioritization (I think it's just habit that has some 'migration' cost so I not really considering it as big benefit over other tools)
dotancohen 2y ago
> I don't sync back and forth, preferring to hand-transcribe anything that is worth my while (I type fast enough on my computer). However it's good to know that my notes are just plain text, therefore always accessible. I sync Org mode from the desktop to the mobile, and read in orgzly. To record things on mobile, I use voice notes. I'm right now working on a desktop application to transcribe and make voice notes accessible by other means as well. If you're interested then my Gmail username is the same as my HN username.
c6401 2y ago
> I use orgzly A couple of alternative options, none of which are perfect, are using Termux with installed Emacs or Logseq, which supports org-mode syntax for files.

simonask 2y ago

I've been interested in Org Mode before, but the thing that always kills it for me is a good synchronization solution. Does anyone have any tips? I regularly access and update my notes on at least 5 different devices, and I often need to share notes with non-technical people, where the barrier of entry needs to be nothing more than a single link they can click. Currently, Google Docs serves that need, but it's not ideal for writing. The ideal solution for me would support using a Git service as the backing store, but the churn of making commits to synchronize has to not get in the way.

adityaathalye 2y ago
Post author here. I'm not sure there is any one sync solution. To share with others, org-export and/or `pandoc -f org -t html` may be your friends. Also Github renders a subset org-mode text. What it can render may be good enough for your needs. Alternatively: how about something like this: - Stick the org source files in a private <Syncthing, or Dropbox, or equivalent> folder, so you can privately sync across devices. - Use a file watcher to auto-export selected files to a shared version of the folder so you can share rendered content with others, with permissions. pandoc is an option but it doesn't export all of org. I think it's not a crazy idea to use Emacs itself as your command-line exporter. If you want special org sauce in the export, maybe pass the command line invocation a dedicated init file for export-only use. - Further, because you are familiar with git, it may be not-crazy to run a Github/Gitlab/daemonised "render" action, on push to a remote repo. Once again, using the Emacs binary as the full-blown exporter.
tetris11 2y ago
Org-mobile exists[0], but I have yet to meet anyone actually using this protocol in the wild, and requires you to have your own server to mediate from, as well as emacs running on your phone. An alternative is to use Git(hub) as the mediator, and here Orgzly is a decent Android app with Git support[1]. It just has a tendency of clobbering your git log with automatically generated commit messages. It has WebDav capabilities too, so you could use Nextcloud as the mediator instead. There's also Syncthing, which is probably what everyone wants: all devices haves the same info, you commit to VC what you want when you want. My personal workflow? Accept that my desktop is where I do the real planning, and that the mobile is just for quickly looking up stuff in my notes. If I have ideas, I can email them to myself and process them later when I'm back on my desktop. Is it perfect? Far from it. Does it work? yes. 0: https://orgmode.org/manual/Org-Mobile.html https://orgmode.org/manual/Org-Mobile.html 1: https://github.com/orgzly/orgzly-android/pull/1037 https://github.com/orgzly/orgzly-android/pull/1037

theshrike79 2y ago

I used org-mode for more than a decade and I still like it as a format a bit more than Markdown. But the main problem with it is Emacs. I want to use org-mode, but I don't need the hassle that is installing a decently configured emacs in multiple environments and platforms. Eventually I just gave up and went full markdown first with Joplin and currently with Obsidian.

adityaathalye 2y ago
Post author here. I agree with the sentiment... Emacs org-mode sticks with me because it grew on me over the years. It's awesome, but it's also a lifestyle :D For your (very legitimate, "just gimme a distro") needs, perhaps Emacs Writing Studio could entice you back into the fold: https://lucidmanager.org/tags/emacs/ https://lucidmanager.org/tags/emacs/
- tconfrey 2y ago
  Thanks for the pointer to Writing Studio! Note also that LogSeq is an org-mode based PKM (https://discuss.logseq.com/t/logseq-org-mode-compatability/869 https://discuss.logseq.com/t/logseq-org-mode-compatability/8...)
  - adityaathalye 2y ago
    Yeah, LogSeq is listed in my blog post. At the time of the post, I think they were desktop-only. Now I see they have apps for all the big OSes; desktop and mobile. Very cool!
hitchdev 2y ago
I wrote a command line tool called "orji" coz of this (still in alpha). I wanted to use orgzly or a text editor and just be able to write templates (in jinja2) or bash scripts to push data in or out of my notes.
billfruit 2y ago
What about Obsidian app on Android asking for permission to access all files on the device?

zackham 2y ago

If you're using org-mode and thinking about customizing it a bit more, and/or would like it to serve you in a way that is a bit more aligned with GTD, this reference from Bernt Hansen is without peer and just an incredible contribution: https://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html https://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html

tconfrey 2y ago

"Growing support is easing collaboration via org files." The same month this article was written (4/22) I tried to make the case for org as an interchange format for productivity tools [1] and pointed to most of the same tools supporting org. (Disclosure, my browser extension, BrainTool[2] is listed in the article). I still love the idea of a local-first, plain text model for sharing personal data across productivity apps, but three years on its not clear to me that the momentum has been maintained. Are folks still building new things on top of org? [1] https://braintool.org/2022/04/29/Tools4Thought-should-use-Org-for-interop.html https://braintool.org/2022/04/29/Tools4Thought-should-use-Or... [2] https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/braintool-go-beyond-bookm/fialfmcgpibjgdoeodaondepigiiddio https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/braintool-go-beyond...

adityaathalye 2y ago
Post author here... My dream: a grammar or specification for org text. So that someone can make a self-contained parser library (I'm not smart enough). So that others can embed it in all their tools, and so that someone can make an LSP for org text. IMHO, the integration of org-mode into Emacs is a double-edged sword. Great for me, because I get batteries-included writing support. /However/ terrible for distribution. The source code of the canonical implementation is the specification. Unfortunately, it is hardwired to the Emacs binary. That fact alone makes org text verboten to most of the known universe. Even if that weren't true, the absence of a standard makes it incredibly difficult for outsiders to maintain feature-parity of their own implementations with the canon, and with each other.
- tconfrey 2y ago
  Completely agree, on both counts. Users often ask me how they can edit their BrainTool.org file outside the extension. There's no way I can in good conscience point the average knowledge worker toward installing an emacs distro! FWIW I use orgajs (https://github.com/orgapp/orgajs https://github.com/orgapp/orgajs). Its well-supported and gives me a pretty complete AST. Highly recommend if you're working in JS.
- internet_points 2y ago

__mharrison__ 2y ago

The problem with org mode (and magit to a somewhat less degree) is that it is tied to emacs. It will never be adopted by 99% of the developer community (or writing community at large). I say this as an emacs user who uses org for my company notes.

mkesper 2y ago
And I think a lot of it is because of defaults. Whenever I open an emacs without my usual configuration of doom-emacs I have to admit it looks dated. Add to that default keyboard shortcuts not working and you've alienated practically everyone taking a look at it.
- subsection1h 2y ago
  > I have to admit it looks dated. I assume this is because most Emacs users, especially Emacs devs, disable the menu bar, tool bar, tab bar, scroll bar, etc. > default keyboard shortcuts not working Yeah, I think a new Emacs installation should prompt the user to choose between something like "Common keyboard shortcuts" and "Classic Emacs shortcuts". It would take me only a few minutes to set up all the common keyboard shortcuts for a new Emacs installation, but I think it should be just one setting.
BeetleB 2y ago
> It will never be adopted by 99% of the developer community (or writing community at large). Something that will never be adopted by 99% of folks is totally fine. Most of my SW has less than 1% the adoption of org mode users (and thus less than 99.99% of the dev community will use it). Should I be concerned? Of course not!
mplanchard 2y ago
I keep dreaming about writing a standalone org-mode app, but given how much of people's workflows are likely to be deeply tied to custom elisp that calls stuff from emacs' library or other emacs packages, it seems like a fool's errand.

codexb 2y ago

The article comments on it briefly, but doesn't really answer the question -- "Why not just use Markdown?" It's already popular. There's already tons of support for it. What does org-mode give us that markdown doesn't?

d0mine 2y ago
There is much more to org-mode than just elegant markup. Here’s a brief overview to get started: https://orgmode.org/features.html https://orgmode.org/features.html (linked the article).
wrs 2y ago
Once you pick one of the many “extended Markdowns” (one downside of MD is that there’s no agreement on what it actually is), they’re essentially equivalent. But they’re not easily interchangeable, so what you’re really choosing is not the syntax you want to use, but the environment and ecosystem of tools you want to live in. For example, compare org-mode in Emacs (decades of plugins, open source, TUI-oriented, very nerdy) to Obsidian (Markdown, pretty good plugin selection, closed source, GUI-based, approachable).
adityaathalye 2y ago
Well, I feel my whole post is my "why org-mode" swan song :D If I had to pick just one reason: Org-mode's much more regular --- and singular, unlike the many flavours of markdown --- syntax appeals to my sensibilities more. I linked to a post, which I agree with: https://karl-voit.at/2017/09/23/orgmode-as-markup-only/ https://karl-voit.at/2017/09/23/orgmode-as-markup-only/
BeetleB 2y ago
Because markdown is a markup, and org mode is an app (with behavior). Can I run source code blocks within a markup document?

jrm4 2y ago

FWIW, I ended up doing a lot of org-mode-like things by starting with https://zim-wiki.org https://zim-wiki.org a VERY long time ago; I use it for notes, scheduling, publishing my own website, and even slides with the s5 thing. Somewhere in there, I gave org-mode 2 or so years and eventually gave it up entirely; it just really plays SO un-nicely with literally everything else. Anyone else looking for this sort of thing, I'd probably point to Obsidian first, but I'll probably stick with zim for the time being.

stn8188 2y ago
I also love Zim! Don't get me wrong, Org-mode is cool and everything, but for a lot of what I do I need to just very quickly drop screenshots and a GUI is just easier. I also have a Zim-based website (https://wiki.shielddigitaldesign.com https://wiki.shielddigitaldesign.com) and used it to track all my tasks on my master's thesis.

metalman 2y ago

read blog post, got to link for downloads, got the android, orgzly from fdroid, figured it out, and am useing it for a trip with a lot of steps and stops tommorow it seems intuitive and poke and see what happens friendly.

adityaathalye 2y ago
Awesome! Please blog/tweet/skeet/toot about your experience. And definitely let the developer know what you felt worked well and didn't. I'd love to see more apps supporting org plaintext.