4 ms·

For start Germany needs better internet connectivity. Getting 1gbps symmetric fiber or 5G coverage is a scifi! Even Romania has better infrastructure!

Traubenfuchs 2y ago
…which currently impossible capabilities, businesses, applications does the allegedly missing fast internet allow?
- theiebrjfb 2y ago
  Working with docker images...
  - jamiedumont 2y ago
    Take my upvote!
FirmwareBurner 2y ago
Yeah but Germany's copper infrastructure is "Made in Germany". That label is gotta be worth something. /s
dotdi 2y ago
It's worse than that. Romania is #43 by GDP in the global ranking. There's faster internet compared to Germany in: Trinidad and Tobago, Colombia, Jordan, Panama, Ecuador, Moldova, etc. Source: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/internet-speeds-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/internet-...
aqueueaqueue 2y ago
Tell me about it. Australia has no 1gb symmetric. Might get 800/100 if lucky.
- fransje26 2y ago
  Still better than the 4/0.5 Mbps DSL provided in my area in Germany.
  - aqueueaqueue 2y ago
    Oh wow. I can't actually remote work on 0.5 upload. Need minimum 4 to talk to people! Although people rave about 1gb, I don't pay for that much as I have no need. I am not downing Llama every minute. A reliable 100 is plenty fast.
    - fransje26 2y ago
      > Oh wow. I can't actually remote work on 0.5 upload. Neither can we... :'(
ThePhysicist 2y ago
Fiber has been laid out in many areas already, it won't be long until most households are upgraded. But to be honest it's not as much of an issue as people make it out, in most areas you can get 250 Mbit downstream and 50 Mbit upstream through DSL, that is plenty for most home use cases, there's just not enough demand for higher speeds. Don't tell me people are regularly maxing out their 1 Gbps lines. In most rural places the fiber linkup stalls not because there's no will to do it but because not enough households vote to get it, providers typically need a quorum of 10-20 % and they don't get it because most people just don't need or want faster Internet (or let's say they are not willing to pay 50-100 € per month for it). Telekom and other companies have fiber running in most of the smaller cities already (otherwise they couldn't offer 250 Mbit DSL) it was just the last mile that was missing and that is mostly being fixed now, but again most households don't even see the need to upgrade. That might change once services requiring super high bandwidth become popular (but what might those be), even 4k streaming is possible on 25 Mbit already and with 100 Mbit you can stream 8k content... And yeah, Romania might have better Internet in some places with high population density but certainly not in the more rural areas, there was a big EU project (RO-NET) to help them get that up and running in more places in the last 5 years. In Germany you can get fiber connection in most cities as well. Don't get me wrong I love faster Internet myself but don't pretend like that is a chief reason why Germany can't have IT startups, we have some of the best connectivity and peering in Europe with DE-CIX and the hub in Frankfurt.
- theiebrjfb 2y ago
  For some people internet is like electricity (or even more important, I can go 10 hours without electricity with UPS). It is a baseline for consideration to even start. How long it takes to upload 500GB video, dataset or docker images on 250/50mbps DSL line? 24 hours in theory! Like two days in reality! On 1gbps it is 1.3 hours in theory, about 2 hours in practice! I understand that most people do not need such connectivity, but for many people it is question of staying productive and profitable. I work in remote team, and we do share such data quite often. DSL line is good as a backup, but it is useless. Perhaps I could deal with limited speed. But latency and throughput goes to hell when under load. I would have to pause all other traffic while making calls! In Romania I have 4 plans in single flat. Fiber, ADSL, and two unlimited (like no speed throttle) 5G SIMs. About 90 euro monthly.
hagbard_c 2y ago
Yes, that. I regularly travel from Sweden to the Netherlands by train and have gotten into the habit of sending a message from Padborg (Danish-German border) that I'm about to enter Germany so I might not be able to react or have data access for the next 7-8 hours. Coverage is spotty at best, totally absent at worst. This seems to be more pronounced in northern Germany, the west is a bit better but still bad compared to my origin (the Nordic countries) and destination (the Netherlands). Quo Vadis, wirtschaftswunder? Werden wir es wirklich schaffen?
dewey 2y ago
I'm always happy to criticize the internet connections and the price for them in Germany...but it's most likely not the main reason that is holding back businesses.
flanked-evergl 2y ago
[deleted]
- peterfirefly 2y ago
  How so? Romania has gypsies, Germany has Muslims.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

Traubenfuchs 2y ago

…which currently impossible capabilities, businesses, applications does the allegedly missing fast internet allow?

theiebrjfb 2y ago
Working with docker images...
- jamiedumont 2y ago
  Take my upvote!

FirmwareBurner 2y ago

Yeah but Germany's copper infrastructure is "Made in Germany". That label is gotta be worth something. /s

dotdi 2y ago

It's worse than that. Romania is #43 by GDP in the global ranking. There's faster internet compared to Germany in: Trinidad and Tobago, Colombia, Jordan, Panama, Ecuador, Moldova, etc. Source: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/internet-speeds-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/internet-...

aqueueaqueue 2y ago

Tell me about it. Australia has no 1gb symmetric. Might get 800/100 if lucky.

fransje26 2y ago
Still better than the 4/0.5 Mbps DSL provided in my area in Germany.
- aqueueaqueue 2y ago
  Oh wow. I can't actually remote work on 0.5 upload. Need minimum 4 to talk to people! Although people rave about 1gb, I don't pay for that much as I have no need. I am not downing Llama every minute. A reliable 100 is plenty fast.
  - fransje26 2y ago
    > Oh wow. I can't actually remote work on 0.5 upload. Neither can we... :'(

ThePhysicist 2y ago

Fiber has been laid out in many areas already, it won't be long until most households are upgraded. But to be honest it's not as much of an issue as people make it out, in most areas you can get 250 Mbit downstream and 50 Mbit upstream through DSL, that is plenty for most home use cases, there's just not enough demand for higher speeds. Don't tell me people are regularly maxing out their 1 Gbps lines. In most rural places the fiber linkup stalls not because there's no will to do it but because not enough households vote to get it, providers typically need a quorum of 10-20 % and they don't get it because most people just don't need or want faster Internet (or let's say they are not willing to pay 50-100 € per month for it). Telekom and other companies have fiber running in most of the smaller cities already (otherwise they couldn't offer 250 Mbit DSL) it was just the last mile that was missing and that is mostly being fixed now, but again most households don't even see the need to upgrade. That might change once services requiring super high bandwidth become popular (but what might those be), even 4k streaming is possible on 25 Mbit already and with 100 Mbit you can stream 8k content... And yeah, Romania might have better Internet in some places with high population density but certainly not in the more rural areas, there was a big EU project (RO-NET) to help them get that up and running in more places in the last 5 years. In Germany you can get fiber connection in most cities as well. Don't get me wrong I love faster Internet myself but don't pretend like that is a chief reason why Germany can't have IT startups, we have some of the best connectivity and peering in Europe with DE-CIX and the hub in Frankfurt.

theiebrjfb 2y ago
For some people internet is like electricity (or even more important, I can go 10 hours without electricity with UPS). It is a baseline for consideration to even start. How long it takes to upload 500GB video, dataset or docker images on 250/50mbps DSL line? 24 hours in theory! Like two days in reality! On 1gbps it is 1.3 hours in theory, about 2 hours in practice! I understand that most people do not need such connectivity, but for many people it is question of staying productive and profitable. I work in remote team, and we do share such data quite often. DSL line is good as a backup, but it is useless. Perhaps I could deal with limited speed. But latency and throughput goes to hell when under load. I would have to pause all other traffic while making calls! In Romania I have 4 plans in single flat. Fiber, ADSL, and two unlimited (like no speed throttle) 5G SIMs. About 90 euro monthly.

hagbard_c 2y ago

Yes, that. I regularly travel from Sweden to the Netherlands by train and have gotten into the habit of sending a message from Padborg (Danish-German border) that I'm about to enter Germany so I might not be able to react or have data access for the next 7-8 hours. Coverage is spotty at best, totally absent at worst. This seems to be more pronounced in northern Germany, the west is a bit better but still bad compared to my origin (the Nordic countries) and destination (the Netherlands). Quo Vadis, wirtschaftswunder? Werden wir es wirklich schaffen?

dewey 2y ago

I'm always happy to criticize the internet connections and the price for them in Germany...but it's most likely not the main reason that is holding back businesses.

flanked-evergl 2y ago

[deleted]

peterfirefly 2y ago
How so? Romania has gypsies, Germany has Muslims.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]