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I think thats the right mindset to have in cases where power increases. I’m really exhausted with this sovereign citizen crap, but when the government is tryin

by dijit 2y ago

I think thats the right mindset to have in cases where power increases. I’m really exhausted with this sovereign citizen crap, but when the government is trying to accrue more powers its worthwhile asking what else can be done with it. For a prescient example: my mother welcomed policies that made protesting more-or-less illegal. “Just Stop Oil” had been doing a lot of nuisance things and she felt it justified. As did the right wing. Now, when the far-right started marching[0] she was horrified to learn the extent of the new powers and said it was orwellian. I use her as an example because I think HN leans left, but it will be the right wing folks who dislike government most. Obviously as a left winger myself- when the right wing government was installing anti-protest measures I was horrified, and was much more keen to point out they it could be used against people like my mum. The government aren’t your friends, they are either changable- meaning all rules have to be solid enough to be used fairly even if the ruling party changes a lot, or: you’re living in something other than democracy, which is largely considered bad. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_riots

wvh 2y ago
People are massively choosing sides, colours, flags, identities. It's not about left or right. It's about personal opinions and identity, and one side having the power to violently disagree with you, to the point of no recourse. It does not matter if it's a left or right boot that stomps you in the face. I see the same thing in my parents, where actions become scary when "the other side" does them. It's a myopic arms race to the bottom of rational understanding.
NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
The trouble, I think, isn't that the left is worried about government power. It's that they're infatuated with its potential to dole out all sorts of entitlements and welfare. It's not so much that you won't want it to have the ability to limit protests, it's just that you want to make sure your guys are in charge first and that they're limiting protests you dislike. >I’m really exhausted with this sovereign citizen crap, I couldn't ask for a better example of my assertion above. For the moment, ignore their lunatic legal theories (rarely can one win cases in court by insulting judges and dismissing their powers to adjudicate). Their sentiment, at least, should be something you're sympathetic for. These aren't people who are disposing of liquid mercury in the local river or selling children to the coal mine as slaves. They're goofballs who want to drive down the road with their own homemade license plate. Rarely, if ever, do you read a story where they're doing something dangerous or harmful. Instead, it's always about them flaunting an attitude that the government shouldn't have power over them in the mundane activities of daily life. Despite that, they're among the most-hated of outgroups among the left. Why? Because when the fringe left is in charge, someday in the near future, it will be just as embarrassing to them that the sovereign citizens give them no respect as it is currently to the not-leftist-enoughs in charge now.
- dijit 2y ago
  This is certainly an opinion. Dumping mercury in a local river is indeed bad, but driving without a license[0] increases the likelihood that you kill someone. It's not either/or; you're choosing to break rules- many of which are written in blood. Being "quirky" does not give you indemnity to potentially destroy a family. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY9HzjdLbo8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY9HzjdLbo8
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
    >but driving without a license[0] increases the likelihood that you kill someone. You're somewhat prone to magical thinking. I can't wait for your misinterpreted statistics that, in your head, prove you correct.
    - dijit 2y ago
      HackerNews frowns on trolling, and you're not very good at it anyway.
      - NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
        I'm not trolling. You frown on unliked opinions.
- pastage 2y ago
  Do not make villains out of a group just because some of them dislike you. Not wanting to participate in society is not a left right question.

by dijit 2y ago

wvh 2y ago

People are massively choosing sides, colours, flags, identities. It's not about left or right. It's about personal opinions and identity, and one side having the power to violently disagree with you, to the point of no recourse. It does not matter if it's a left or right boot that stomps you in the face. I see the same thing in my parents, where actions become scary when "the other side" does them. It's a myopic arms race to the bottom of rational understanding.

NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago

The trouble, I think, isn't that the left is worried about government power. It's that they're infatuated with its potential to dole out all sorts of entitlements and welfare. It's not so much that you won't want it to have the ability to limit protests, it's just that you want to make sure your guys are in charge first and that they're limiting protests you dislike. >I’m really exhausted with this sovereign citizen crap, I couldn't ask for a better example of my assertion above. For the moment, ignore their lunatic legal theories (rarely can one win cases in court by insulting judges and dismissing their powers to adjudicate). Their sentiment, at least, should be something you're sympathetic for. These aren't people who are disposing of liquid mercury in the local river or selling children to the coal mine as slaves. They're goofballs who want to drive down the road with their own homemade license plate. Rarely, if ever, do you read a story where they're doing something dangerous or harmful. Instead, it's always about them flaunting an attitude that the government shouldn't have power over them in the mundane activities of daily life. Despite that, they're among the most-hated of outgroups among the left. Why? Because when the fringe left is in charge, someday in the near future, it will be just as embarrassing to them that the sovereign citizens give them no respect as it is currently to the not-leftist-enoughs in charge now.

dijit 2y ago
This is certainly an opinion. Dumping mercury in a local river is indeed bad, but driving without a license[0] increases the likelihood that you kill someone. It's not either/or; you're choosing to break rules- many of which are written in blood. Being "quirky" does not give you indemnity to potentially destroy a family. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY9HzjdLbo8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY9HzjdLbo8
- NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
  >but driving without a license[0] increases the likelihood that you kill someone. You're somewhat prone to magical thinking. I can't wait for your misinterpreted statistics that, in your head, prove you correct.
  - dijit 2y ago
    HackerNews frowns on trolling, and you're not very good at it anyway.
    - NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
      I'm not trolling. You frown on unliked opinions.
pastage 2y ago
Do not make villains out of a group just because some of them dislike you. Not wanting to participate in society is not a left right question.