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If you remember the "belt tightening of the '80's" under Reagan, who couldn't understand financial math either, it takes thousands of mindless layoffs, "across

If you remember the "belt tightening of the '80's" under Reagan, who couldn't understand financial math either, it takes thousands of mindless layoffs, "across the board" in order to add up to the millions that are destined to be disenfranchised, a large number of whom will drop completely from the statistics forevermore. Remember this is when GDP was invented, then for previous years when there was only GNP, those were converted to GDP values very slyly in a way to "not freak people out" about how much worse it was than before. Even Chevron is bound to layoff about 8,000 according to recent announcements, of course they can afford to take their time like few non-oil companies can, but it'll all be over for these dedicated employees of theirs before the end of 2026. Same kind of bubbles there were back then, once millions have been set back generations, everyone else will largely think there are no lingering problems because they actually have jobs. There is some air of success from those who did luck out in the numbers game, because of the atmosphere where people know it's harder to get or keep a career going. So they highly value the job they have more than ever, but really can't afford very much sympathy for so many millions that can not be saved.

lotsofpulp 2y ago
> a large number of whom will drop completely from the statistics forevermore. U-6 unemployment and labor force participation rates capture everyone. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-labor-force-participation-rate.htm https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-lab... There are also many other places un and underemployed people show up, such as income quintiles, tax return statistics, and eventually, revenue and net income in publicly listed business’ financials.
- fuzzfactor 2y ago
  Did you read and understand this part on how you would go about including yourself in U-6? >Discouraged workers, a subset of the marginally attached, have given a job-market related reason for not currently looking for work. If it gets to the point where very many of the unfortunates can not give a reason and have it register, they're out of there. Always have been when it's government malfeasance. There's got to be an easy out or the sentiment could get so negative that the people that still have money will stop spending too, which is even worse. Remember how that was? That's why we don't have anything like Bell Labs today. With things like this I think it's straightforward to indicate you don't have the experience without actually stating that you don't.
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    >If it gets to the point where very many of the unfortunates can not give a reason and have it register, they're out of there. But still in labor force participation rate. The point is they are in the statistics, just look at the right statistics. It seems reasonable that even U-6 excludes people who would not be working regardless of what is going on in the economy, as it is trying to be the broadest measure of the ratio of people working who would be working if there were agreeable economic conditions.
lucasyvas 2y ago
I am too young to have lived through it and understand my observation is likely not novel, but it is new to me. I am a millennial born in the 90s, which means I didn’t really practically absorb any dotcom fallout either. Even 2008 was an insignificant blip to me - I'm outside the US as well.
h2zizzle 2y ago
I'm told that the French don't have to put up with this crap because they are much more willing to go on strike, even after securing a cushy, high-paying job. I think it must be a herd immunity thing; ever since being unceremoniously fired from my first real job in my 20s, my attitude has been that I will be a conscientious worker to the utmost, up until the point that my employer deigns to screw me. At that point, my attitude becomes, "Fire me." Mostly, they do not. The times they did, their hard-nosed facade softened considerably when they realized that I was willing not only to drop everything immediately and leave them high-and-dry, but also to come after them for anything they might owe me. If more were willing to say no to being exploited, it probably wouldn't even get that far. People can make due, but you don't have a company if you don't have your employees. Messing with the "disposable" ones should immediately get even the most secure on the picket line, but it doesn't seem to (unless you're an actor or writer).
- specialist 2y ago
  French Labor have rights that are illegal in the USA. Taft-Hartley Act [1947] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft%E2%80%93Hartley_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft%E2%80%93Hartley_Act It's been all downhill since. With a brief respite under the Biden Admin, passing Infrastructure Investment and Jobs (aka BIL), CHIPS Act, and Inflation Reduction Act all significantly boosted Labor and unions. Plus other efforts, like rescuing the pensions of ~2 million workers.
- BrandoElFollito 2y ago
  We have a Labor Law that protects employees. Work here is not perceived as an ultimate goal in life, and someone who is a hard worker is seen just as that: a hard worker. Not some kind of saint. We like to works, this brings all kind of advantages in everyday life, but this is not at all driven by a puritan culture - rather like something you get to like because you meet people and so on. We earn less, but also take less to the grave.

lotsofpulp 2y ago

> a large number of whom will drop completely from the statistics forevermore. U-6 unemployment and labor force participation rates capture everyone. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-labor-force-participation-rate.htm https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-lab... There are also many other places un and underemployed people show up, such as income quintiles, tax return statistics, and eventually, revenue and net income in publicly listed business’ financials.

fuzzfactor 2y ago
Did you read and understand this part on how you would go about including yourself in U-6? >Discouraged workers, a subset of the marginally attached, have given a job-market related reason for not currently looking for work. If it gets to the point where very many of the unfortunates can not give a reason and have it register, they're out of there. Always have been when it's government malfeasance. There's got to be an easy out or the sentiment could get so negative that the people that still have money will stop spending too, which is even worse. Remember how that was? That's why we don't have anything like Bell Labs today. With things like this I think it's straightforward to indicate you don't have the experience without actually stating that you don't.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  >If it gets to the point where very many of the unfortunates can not give a reason and have it register, they're out of there. But still in labor force participation rate. The point is they are in the statistics, just look at the right statistics. It seems reasonable that even U-6 excludes people who would not be working regardless of what is going on in the economy, as it is trying to be the broadest measure of the ratio of people working who would be working if there were agreeable economic conditions.

lucasyvas 2y ago

I am too young to have lived through it and understand my observation is likely not novel, but it is new to me. I am a millennial born in the 90s, which means I didn’t really practically absorb any dotcom fallout either. Even 2008 was an insignificant blip to me - I'm outside the US as well.

h2zizzle 2y ago

I'm told that the French don't have to put up with this crap because they are much more willing to go on strike, even after securing a cushy, high-paying job. I think it must be a herd immunity thing; ever since being unceremoniously fired from my first real job in my 20s, my attitude has been that I will be a conscientious worker to the utmost, up until the point that my employer deigns to screw me. At that point, my attitude becomes, "Fire me." Mostly, they do not. The times they did, their hard-nosed facade softened considerably when they realized that I was willing not only to drop everything immediately and leave them high-and-dry, but also to come after them for anything they might owe me. If more were willing to say no to being exploited, it probably wouldn't even get that far. People can make due, but you don't have a company if you don't have your employees. Messing with the "disposable" ones should immediately get even the most secure on the picket line, but it doesn't seem to (unless you're an actor or writer).

specialist 2y ago
French Labor have rights that are illegal in the USA. Taft-Hartley Act [1947] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft%E2%80%93Hartley_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft%E2%80%93Hartley_Act It's been all downhill since. With a brief respite under the Biden Admin, passing Infrastructure Investment and Jobs (aka BIL), CHIPS Act, and Inflation Reduction Act all significantly boosted Labor and unions. Plus other efforts, like rescuing the pensions of ~2 million workers.
BrandoElFollito 2y ago
We have a Labor Law that protects employees. Work here is not perceived as an ultimate goal in life, and someone who is a hard worker is seen just as that: a hard worker. Not some kind of saint. We like to works, this brings all kind of advantages in everyday life, but this is not at all driven by a puritan culture - rather like something you get to like because you meet people and so on. We earn less, but also take less to the grave.