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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_rights_in_the_United_States#V-coding https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_rights_in_the_Un... 58% of trans wo

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_rights_in_the_United_States#V-coding https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_rights_in_the_Un... 58% of trans women placed in men's prisons report being violently sexually assaulted. One answer is a lot more damned than the other.

_heimdall 2y ago
That falls squarely in the "if we can't imprison citizens safely, maybe we shouldn't imprison anyone" category for me.
- yawpitch 2y ago
  … ok, you might be getting a little closer to waking up here. If prisons worked (as anything but a source of cheap labor) all Americans would be safe.
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    I don't need to wake up here, and your condescending tone wouldn't help convince me otherwise.
    - yawpitch 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - _heimdall 2y ago
        I didn't mean tone as in the intonation of your words, I meant the specific words you chose and what they imply. You made it clear that you know where I currently stand on the topic, where I have stood on it in the past, what I do or don't know, and that you're way of viewing the topic is right and I just need to "see the light" as it were. All of that was very clear in your written words, verbal intonation was needed to know what you meant and how you viewed me in that exchange.
        yawpitch 2y ago
        You really like to read a lot more into my words then are (or ever could be) there. Let be be more explicit: my original comment was just to take the point you were not quite making and instead make it explicit… prisons don’t work at all, and can’t work if their intent isn’t to keep everyone safe. I’m not a fan whatsoever of the “sex is almost universally binary” statement, as nothing can possibly be “almost universally” binary; there are either precisely two options or what you do not have is a binary. I also am not a fan of “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” thought-terminating cliche, or your response to someone (very rightly) pointing out that there’s a greater evil in those two choices… but I wasn’t actually criticizing your point or your beliefs or you, just your rather ambiguous wording. I only got critical at the point of pointless tone-policing, since “tone” is practically impossible to correctly surmise in a written communication. I don’t know a thing about you, except that you appear easily distracted by fuzzy thinking. This, of course, is almost universally human, so I’m not being even remotely sarcastic here, either.
gaganyaan 2y ago
That should be fixed, but don't shunt he problem off onto women. Men belong in sex-appropriate prisons.
- yawpitch 2y ago
  Assuming that prisons should be segregated by something like sex is shunting the problem off on women. Even assuming your binary exists — it doesn’t — a heterosexual cisgender woman is, obviously, under no additional risk being housed with a heterosexual transgender woman… it’s not the genitals that are the problem, it’s whom do you intend to deploy those genitals on.
  - nh23423fefe 2y ago
    I thought sexuality was fluid?
    - yawpitch 2y ago
      Not mine, solid as a rock. That laugh aside, I’m not sure you made your point; once more, the heterosexual cisgender woman is in less danger from a heterosexual transgender woman than she is from another otherwise cisgender woman who will aggressively pursue any port in a storm.
      - nh23423fefe 2y ago
        oh. once more
      - gaganyaan 2y ago
        That's plainly false. Incarcerated women have already been raped, beaten, and impregnated by men in women's prisons. Men, including transgender women, are bigger and stronger than women and will use that to their advantage.
  - gaganyaan 2y ago
    A heterosexual transgender woman intends to deploy those genitals on women. That makes it a problem for uninvolved women that shouldn't have to worry about men in women's spaces. If you want to argue for not segregating prisons by sex, then you should just state that. If that ever happens you'll quickly find out how terrible of an idea it is.
bobalob 2y ago
The only sensible solution to that is segregation within male prisons, as is done for other vulnerable groups of inmates such as ex-cops, gang informants, pedophiles, child killers, and similar. Incarcerating males in the female prison estate was an absurd and demonstrably harmful policy, and it's very good news that this will now no longer be the case in the federal prison system.

_heimdall 2y ago

That falls squarely in the "if we can't imprison citizens safely, maybe we shouldn't imprison anyone" category for me.

yawpitch 2y ago
… ok, you might be getting a little closer to waking up here. If prisons worked (as anything but a source of cheap labor) all Americans would be safe.
- _heimdall 2y ago
  I don't need to wake up here, and your condescending tone wouldn't help convince me otherwise.
  - yawpitch 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - _heimdall 2y ago
      I didn't mean tone as in the intonation of your words, I meant the specific words you chose and what they imply. You made it clear that you know where I currently stand on the topic, where I have stood on it in the past, what I do or don't know, and that you're way of viewing the topic is right and I just need to "see the light" as it were. All of that was very clear in your written words, verbal intonation was needed to know what you meant and how you viewed me in that exchange.
      - yawpitch 2y ago
        You really like to read a lot more into my words then are (or ever could be) there. Let be be more explicit: my original comment was just to take the point you were not quite making and instead make it explicit… prisons don’t work at all, and can’t work if their intent isn’t to keep everyone safe. I’m not a fan whatsoever of the “sex is almost universally binary” statement, as nothing can possibly be “almost universally” binary; there are either precisely two options or what you do not have is a binary. I also am not a fan of “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” thought-terminating cliche, or your response to someone (very rightly) pointing out that there’s a greater evil in those two choices… but I wasn’t actually criticizing your point or your beliefs or you, just your rather ambiguous wording. I only got critical at the point of pointless tone-policing, since “tone” is practically impossible to correctly surmise in a written communication. I don’t know a thing about you, except that you appear easily distracted by fuzzy thinking. This, of course, is almost universally human, so I’m not being even remotely sarcastic here, either.

gaganyaan 2y ago

That should be fixed, but don't shunt he problem off onto women. Men belong in sex-appropriate prisons.

yawpitch 2y ago
Assuming that prisons should be segregated by something like sex is shunting the problem off on women. Even assuming your binary exists — it doesn’t — a heterosexual cisgender woman is, obviously, under no additional risk being housed with a heterosexual transgender woman… it’s not the genitals that are the problem, it’s whom do you intend to deploy those genitals on.
- nh23423fefe 2y ago
  I thought sexuality was fluid?
  - yawpitch 2y ago
    Not mine, solid as a rock. That laugh aside, I’m not sure you made your point; once more, the heterosexual cisgender woman is in less danger from a heterosexual transgender woman than she is from another otherwise cisgender woman who will aggressively pursue any port in a storm.
    - nh23423fefe 2y ago
      oh. once more
    - gaganyaan 2y ago
      That's plainly false. Incarcerated women have already been raped, beaten, and impregnated by men in women's prisons. Men, including transgender women, are bigger and stronger than women and will use that to their advantage.
- gaganyaan 2y ago
  A heterosexual transgender woman intends to deploy those genitals on women. That makes it a problem for uninvolved women that shouldn't have to worry about men in women's spaces. If you want to argue for not segregating prisons by sex, then you should just state that. If that ever happens you'll quickly find out how terrible of an idea it is.

bobalob 2y ago

The only sensible solution to that is segregation within male prisons, as is done for other vulnerable groups of inmates such as ex-cops, gang informants, pedophiles, child killers, and similar. Incarcerating males in the female prison estate was an absurd and demonstrably harmful policy, and it's very good news that this will now no longer be the case in the federal prison system.