4 ms·

> but move where? For hosting their government's own specific computing needs, and assuming a respectable GDP, they can build their own datacenters (pretty tri

> but move where? For hosting their government's own specific computing needs, and assuming a respectable GDP, they can build their own datacenters (pretty trivial) and hire contractors to build cloud computing environments (more challenging). Open source cloud isn't too hard. There's OSS for about 80% of software needed for a cloud computing service provider, and you fill in the rest with proprietary and custom stuff. There's already several providers (one in the US, several in the EU/other countries) that offer "public cloud" using OpenStack. They literally give you, the customer, your own OpenStack cluster, and bill you for what you use. It's insanely easy and powerful. Yet everybody still uses the more popular providers (DO, Hetzner, Scaleway, etc), despite the fact that they all have proprietary interfaces, without anything close to feature parity with OpenStack. I guess people really like vendor lock-in and lack of features. The hardware is more challenging to source; the chips all come from Taiwan or China, and the US and China make most of the good hardware. For private business in their country, they might offer grants and tax incentives to EU companies to build out more local cloud hosting services. But since it's the EU I'm sure it's massively more complicated than that.

Mossy9 2y ago
Interesting, thank you! Care to link any OpenStack providers? Do you have experience working with any of them?
- matt-p 2y ago
  Rackspace where the archetypal provider and they sucked. The irony is I've only actually ever really seen internal open stack instances, providers for whatever reason seem to prefer to roll thier own
  - junto 2y ago
    They were great early on until they got bought and then they sucked. All of the talented people left around 2013 if memory serves me right.
- gilPiHlq 2y ago
  https://www.infomaniak.com/en/hosting/public-cloud https://www.infomaniak.com/en/hosting/public-cloud
- 0xbadcafebee 2y ago
  In the US: - The one I have experience using is Genesis Hosting out of Chicago. Their website looks like it's from 1997, because it is from 1997... But they provide a nice OpenStack solution that works well. - I haven't used Vexxhost, they seem to provide something OpenStack-related, but their website is all marketing bullshit, so I have no idea what you actually get. - RamNode seems to provide access to the OpenStack API. In Europe: - OVH Public Cloud is still short on details, but based on some verbiage buried in the marketing BS, it looks like you do get an OpenStack interface. - Open Telekom Cloud by T-Mobile seems to give you an OpenStack interface. - Acville Cloud is based in Romania. - Cyso Cloud (formerly Fuga Cloud) is based in the Netherlands. - IntoVPS seems to provide its services on OpenStack, but no idea if the API is open. They build a custom OpenStack console called Fleio. There's a lot more listed here: https://www.openstack.org/marketplace/public-clouds/ https://www.openstack.org/marketplace/public-clouds/
busterarm 2y ago
As someone who runs OpenStack clusters and uses public cloud providers, I think it's worth noting a few things: - Outside of the Telco sector, OpenStack is basically dead. - Even within Telco, everyone sees the writing on the wall of OS being dead and is looking to make the jump. - OpenStack is a cluster of poorly-interoperating, poorly-documented products -- The customer experience is fucking terrible. - DO, Hetzner, etc all offer a superior product. - None of those products even come close to touching the features of the big three clouds or even Oracle. If your needs could be well-served by DO, Hetzner, etc., then your needs could be well served by racks in a colo. Past that scale, American cloud providers are really your only option if you want that level of automation. (Or Chinese cloud providers, but largely assuming that's a non-option)
- 0xbadcafebee 2y ago
  Well as someone who's actually used them as a customer, OpenStack hosting providers do give more functionality than DO, Hetzner, etc, plus they have an open API. None of them compete with the "big 4" public clouds (everyone forgets Oracle is still around...) but if all you want is IaaS then you don't need them. I know OpenStack is a tire fire to maintain, I've worked with it for large-scale on-prem data solutions. But if a company wants to kill themselves to maintain it for me, I'm happy to pay for the privilege.
  - busterarm 2y ago
    Being a customer of an OpenStack provider isn't exactly a picnic. I could show you a long stack of support tickets from all of the things constantly going wrong.
    - evolve2k 2y ago
      Given a long list of support tickets vs Effectively relying on responsible stewardship by Musk and the King of America, I suspect there will be many a developer who find the long list of ticketed issues to be the less hard problem to tackle.

Mossy9 2y ago

Interesting, thank you! Care to link any OpenStack providers? Do you have experience working with any of them?

matt-p 2y ago
Rackspace where the archetypal provider and they sucked. The irony is I've only actually ever really seen internal open stack instances, providers for whatever reason seem to prefer to roll thier own
- junto 2y ago
  They were great early on until they got bought and then they sucked. All of the talented people left around 2013 if memory serves me right.
gilPiHlq 2y ago
https://www.infomaniak.com/en/hosting/public-cloud https://www.infomaniak.com/en/hosting/public-cloud
0xbadcafebee 2y ago
In the US: - The one I have experience using is Genesis Hosting out of Chicago. Their website looks like it's from 1997, because it is from 1997... But they provide a nice OpenStack solution that works well. - I haven't used Vexxhost, they seem to provide something OpenStack-related, but their website is all marketing bullshit, so I have no idea what you actually get. - RamNode seems to provide access to the OpenStack API. In Europe: - OVH Public Cloud is still short on details, but based on some verbiage buried in the marketing BS, it looks like you do get an OpenStack interface. - Open Telekom Cloud by T-Mobile seems to give you an OpenStack interface. - Acville Cloud is based in Romania. - Cyso Cloud (formerly Fuga Cloud) is based in the Netherlands. - IntoVPS seems to provide its services on OpenStack, but no idea if the API is open. They build a custom OpenStack console called Fleio. There's a lot more listed here: https://www.openstack.org/marketplace/public-clouds/ https://www.openstack.org/marketplace/public-clouds/

busterarm 2y ago

As someone who runs OpenStack clusters and uses public cloud providers, I think it's worth noting a few things: - Outside of the Telco sector, OpenStack is basically dead. - Even within Telco, everyone sees the writing on the wall of OS being dead and is looking to make the jump. - OpenStack is a cluster of poorly-interoperating, poorly-documented products -- The customer experience is fucking terrible. - DO, Hetzner, etc all offer a superior product. - None of those products even come close to touching the features of the big three clouds or even Oracle. If your needs could be well-served by DO, Hetzner, etc., then your needs could be well served by racks in a colo. Past that scale, American cloud providers are really your only option if you want that level of automation. (Or Chinese cloud providers, but largely assuming that's a non-option)

0xbadcafebee 2y ago
Well as someone who's actually used them as a customer, OpenStack hosting providers do give more functionality than DO, Hetzner, etc, plus they have an open API. None of them compete with the "big 4" public clouds (everyone forgets Oracle is still around...) but if all you want is IaaS then you don't need them. I know OpenStack is a tire fire to maintain, I've worked with it for large-scale on-prem data solutions. But if a company wants to kill themselves to maintain it for me, I'm happy to pay for the privilege.
- busterarm 2y ago
  Being a customer of an OpenStack provider isn't exactly a picnic. I could show you a long stack of support tickets from all of the things constantly going wrong.
  - evolve2k 2y ago
    Given a long list of support tickets vs Effectively relying on responsible stewardship by Musk and the King of America, I suspect there will be many a developer who find the long list of ticketed issues to be the less hard problem to tackle.