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While clojure has gained (accreted) more options of ways to run things, every single one of the ways you mentioned still work! It’s extremely stable in this reg

by cschep 2y ago

While clojure has gained (accreted) more options of ways to run things, every single one of the ways you mentioned still work! It’s extremely stable in this regard. Nothing was taken away because there is a new hotness. Sure, things were added. Why is that bad at all?

Lyngbakr 2y ago
Personally, I prefer it when there is a solid default tool chain for a language rather than having to choose from one of several. That way, I know pretty much what to expect when I open any project in that language. I feel like this is one of the few places where Clojure dropped the ball and that deps.edn should've been there from the get-go.
- th0ma5 2y ago
  What language ecosystem does this right?
  - riwsky 2y ago
    Go
    - phtrivier 2y ago
      And rust. And elixir. And caml, which, after many years, settled on dune. And, apparently, common lisp, which settled on ASDF sometime before I reached puberty. And, probably, every language born after java. Which is all the weirder : rich hickey could (should ?) have figure that "building infra" was one of the aspect where clojure was a great fit ("lein as an ant+maven killer.") To be fair, it wasn't as much in the zeitgeist at the time. Still, a new language nowadays must have, on aday one, a package manager and a linter and a formatter and a test runner, etc... - just like it must have an LSP. It's funny looking a zig trying to fight this. It's funny watching roc reinventing that weel. I guess jblow will rationalize against it for jai. I wonder if someone is going to standardize "the rest" of the toolchain. ("Language dependency manager protocol", anyone ?)
  - asa400 2y ago
    Both Rust and Elixir get this right. I have used both in anger, for money, to ship real stuff, and while neither is perfect, they are both great. To a first an approximation, every Rust project uses Cargo and every Elixir project uses Mix, and they are both first-party tools so they have a level of stability, approachability, and ubiquity that comes with being tied to the language. I’d kill for Clojure to have something half as good as Cargo or Mix and have it be the only build tool, but that ship has sailed.

by cschep 2y ago

Lyngbakr 2y ago

Personally, I prefer it when there is a solid default tool chain for a language rather than having to choose from one of several. That way, I know pretty much what to expect when I open any project in that language. I feel like this is one of the few places where Clojure dropped the ball and that deps.edn should've been there from the get-go.

th0ma5 2y ago
What language ecosystem does this right?
- riwsky 2y ago
  Go
  - phtrivier 2y ago
    And rust. And elixir. And caml, which, after many years, settled on dune. And, apparently, common lisp, which settled on ASDF sometime before I reached puberty. And, probably, every language born after java. Which is all the weirder : rich hickey could (should ?) have figure that "building infra" was one of the aspect where clojure was a great fit ("lein as an ant+maven killer.") To be fair, it wasn't as much in the zeitgeist at the time. Still, a new language nowadays must have, on aday one, a package manager and a linter and a formatter and a test runner, etc... - just like it must have an LSP. It's funny looking a zig trying to fight this. It's funny watching roc reinventing that weel. I guess jblow will rationalize against it for jai. I wonder if someone is going to standardize "the rest" of the toolchain. ("Language dependency manager protocol", anyone ?)
- asa400 2y ago
  Both Rust and Elixir get this right. I have used both in anger, for money, to ship real stuff, and while neither is perfect, they are both great. To a first an approximation, every Rust project uses Cargo and every Elixir project uses Mix, and they are both first-party tools so they have a level of stability, approachability, and ubiquity that comes with being tied to the language. I’d kill for Clojure to have something half as good as Cargo or Mix and have it be the only build tool, but that ship has sailed.