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I like Clojure well enough, but it feels like every single time I see it mentioned now is an write up trying to justify using it.

by viccis 2y ago

iLemming 2y ago
> justify using it Justify using it against what? Can you name a single other language that does things better than Clojure? Not from your "point of values," but try seeing it from my position. Is there anything that can replace Clojure for me? I love the dynamism, malleability of the language - the flow; writing Clojure programs for me feels like playing a video game - it's plenty of fun. I don't get the same kicks from literally any other "mainstream-ish" language that's being used today. I like Common Lisp, but I have never had any practical, large opportunities to use it seriously, and there are things that I love in Clojure that I'm sure I'll miss in CL. I like Haskell, but it's even less practical (for me). In my view, there isn't a single language that respects good ideas carried in Clojure and does them in a better or at least pragmatically viable fashion - I've evaluated Elixir, OCaml, Rust and some other choices. I am excited about Jank, can't wait for it to hit the first production-ready release. But today, nothing is more joyful for me to use than Clojure/Clojurescript.
- kunley 2y ago
  Haha, it is "against what" that you have added by yourself. And that's exactly the issue with this kind of posts and comments: going right away into either a very defensive mode or a fight mode.
- cmbothwell 2y ago
  What was it about Elixir that you found dissatisfactory? I am currently evaluating Clojure vs. Elixir for a new project.
  - innocentoldguy 2y ago
    I spent a lot of time objectively evaluating languages for a new project I built several years ago. Elixir won out. It has now been 12 years and I still believe Elixir was the right choice for the following reasons (this list is not exhaustive): BEAM handles concurrency better than the JVM. Elixir threads are implemented using private memory where Clojure uses public memory. Mix is superior to Clojure’s tooling. Elixir is easier to learn and write. OTP is fantastic. Phoenix is an excellent web framework.
    - worthless-trash 2y ago
      If you want lisp on beam there is always lfe .
dankwizard 2y ago
The kids these days throw the word "copium" around and that's exactly what it is. There is a lot of elitism around Clojure and all of them are looking to throw down. Even your comment has already garnered 1 of them out of the shadows.
- rads 2y ago
  I'm curious, how did you form this opinion? Did you have a bad experience with Clojure yourself?
delegate 2y ago
Are we reading the same articles ? I see articles (like the one above) where people are sharing their excellent experience using the language as has been my experience over the years of using it. A justification would be 'we hate this ugly thing, but we use it because it's cool', but that's not what I've been reading..

I like Clojure well enough, but it feels like every single time I see it mentioned now is an write up trying to justify using it.

by viccis 2y ago

I like Clojure well enough, but it feels like every single time I see it mentioned now is an write up trying to justify using it.

iLemming 2y ago

> justify using it Justify using it against what? Can you name a single other language that does things better than Clojure? Not from your "point of values," but try seeing it from my position. Is there anything that can replace Clojure for me? I love the dynamism, malleability of the language - the flow; writing Clojure programs for me feels like playing a video game - it's plenty of fun. I don't get the same kicks from literally any other "mainstream-ish" language that's being used today. I like Common Lisp, but I have never had any practical, large opportunities to use it seriously, and there are things that I love in Clojure that I'm sure I'll miss in CL. I like Haskell, but it's even less practical (for me). In my view, there isn't a single language that respects good ideas carried in Clojure and does them in a better or at least pragmatically viable fashion - I've evaluated Elixir, OCaml, Rust and some other choices. I am excited about Jank, can't wait for it to hit the first production-ready release. But today, nothing is more joyful for me to use than Clojure/Clojurescript.

kunley 2y ago
Haha, it is "against what" that you have added by yourself. And that's exactly the issue with this kind of posts and comments: going right away into either a very defensive mode or a fight mode.
cmbothwell 2y ago
What was it about Elixir that you found dissatisfactory? I am currently evaluating Clojure vs. Elixir for a new project.
- innocentoldguy 2y ago
  I spent a lot of time objectively evaluating languages for a new project I built several years ago. Elixir won out. It has now been 12 years and I still believe Elixir was the right choice for the following reasons (this list is not exhaustive): BEAM handles concurrency better than the JVM. Elixir threads are implemented using private memory where Clojure uses public memory. Mix is superior to Clojure’s tooling. Elixir is easier to learn and write. OTP is fantastic. Phoenix is an excellent web framework.
  - worthless-trash 2y ago
    If you want lisp on beam there is always lfe .

dankwizard 2y ago

The kids these days throw the word "copium" around and that's exactly what it is. There is a lot of elitism around Clojure and all of them are looking to throw down. Even your comment has already garnered 1 of them out of the shadows.

rads 2y ago
I'm curious, how did you form this opinion? Did you have a bad experience with Clojure yourself?

delegate 2y ago

Are we reading the same articles ? I see articles (like the one above) where people are sharing their excellent experience using the language as has been my experience over the years of using it. A justification would be 'we hate this ugly thing, but we use it because it's cool', but that's not what I've been reading..