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I often wondered if the fact your number system forces you to multiply somehow affects your mathematical competence. France has won a lot of Fields medals.

wongarsu 2y ago
The English number system kind of also forces you to multiply. Ninety-six is nine tens plus six, or 9*10+6. French is just special because they randomly sneak in base 20. But I doubt they really think more about saying 4 score plus sixteen then you do about saying nine tens plus six. What is more influential (in a detrimental way) is German randomly switching reading direction. They read 2196 as 2000+100+6+90 instead of the more reasonable 2000+100+90+6
- lucb1e 2y ago
  Dutch does that too, and I've tried out what happens if you say it correctly ("negentig 'n zes", ninety and six, instead of "zes 'n negentig") It takes a second to process and then they'll ask "do you mean [reverse order variant]?" so they do kinda get it and I think transitioning to the sane version could be possible without much trouble, but people would have to want to
  - blahedo 2y ago
    It's because if it's out of order, your "partial interpretation so far" in your head gets messed up. A relative of mine pulls a version of this in English (that I find hilarious): in American English we usually read phone numbers one digit at a time, but sometimes group pairs of digits, and it doesn't really matter because "forty five" and "four five" present in the same order. Their phone number has a 1 in it, so to prank people that are writing down or typing the number they read it as (numbers made up, but the effect is): five six seven four -teen ... and then cracks up. I cracked up when it was done to me, although apparently not everyone finds it so funny. ;)
    - BrandoElFollito 2y ago
      In France we read our numbers in pairs: 01 23 45 67 89. The initial zero is complicated, it is a butchered-up solution when we were transitioning the numbers and in an international context one never knows whether to say +33 0 1 23 45... or +33 1 23 45... (the latter one is correct, though both will likely work). When you remove the zero in the international version, lots of systems will format the number by triplets, which seems to be more common in Europe (+33 123 456 789)
- FearNotDaniel 2y ago
  Sing a song of sixpence, a pocket full of rye, four-and-twenty blackbirds, baked in a pie… I had schoolteachers who still spoke like this in 1970s Yorkshire. I don’t know if it was a regional dialect thing or a generational thing across all England, but among the over-40s back then it was still pretty common to hear German-style backwards numbers in English.
moogly 2y ago
We can test your theory by checking how the Danes fared. https://blogs.transparent.com/language-news/2016/08/29/danish-numbers-out-frenching-the-french/ https://blogs.transparent.com/language-news/2016/08/29/danis...
Detrytus 2y ago
I once read an article claiming ghat Chinese are do good at math for two reasons: 1. Their words for Numbers are based on Base-10 system (so no nonsense such as „eleven” and „twelve”) 2. Their words for Numbers are short, one syllabe, so they can keep morę of them in their short term memory at once Not saying there’s any truth to that, but sounds interesting
BrandoElFollito 2y ago
No, because nobody thinks 4*20+16 when saying 96, this is just a string in your head, without any links to 4, 20, 16. This is just a word like "ghdtehbdf"

wongarsu 2y ago

The English number system kind of also forces you to multiply. Ninety-six is nine tens plus six, or 9*10+6. French is just special because they randomly sneak in base 20. But I doubt they really think more about saying 4 score plus sixteen then you do about saying nine tens plus six. What is more influential (in a detrimental way) is German randomly switching reading direction. They read 2196 as 2000+100+6+90 instead of the more reasonable 2000+100+90+6

lucb1e 2y ago
Dutch does that too, and I've tried out what happens if you say it correctly ("negentig 'n zes", ninety and six, instead of "zes 'n negentig") It takes a second to process and then they'll ask "do you mean [reverse order variant]?" so they do kinda get it and I think transitioning to the sane version could be possible without much trouble, but people would have to want to
- blahedo 2y ago
  It's because if it's out of order, your "partial interpretation so far" in your head gets messed up. A relative of mine pulls a version of this in English (that I find hilarious): in American English we usually read phone numbers one digit at a time, but sometimes group pairs of digits, and it doesn't really matter because "forty five" and "four five" present in the same order. Their phone number has a 1 in it, so to prank people that are writing down or typing the number they read it as (numbers made up, but the effect is): five six seven four -teen ... and then cracks up. I cracked up when it was done to me, although apparently not everyone finds it so funny. ;)
  - BrandoElFollito 2y ago
    In France we read our numbers in pairs: 01 23 45 67 89. The initial zero is complicated, it is a butchered-up solution when we were transitioning the numbers and in an international context one never knows whether to say +33 0 1 23 45... or +33 1 23 45... (the latter one is correct, though both will likely work). When you remove the zero in the international version, lots of systems will format the number by triplets, which seems to be more common in Europe (+33 123 456 789)
FearNotDaniel 2y ago
Sing a song of sixpence, a pocket full of rye, four-and-twenty blackbirds, baked in a pie… I had schoolteachers who still spoke like this in 1970s Yorkshire. I don’t know if it was a regional dialect thing or a generational thing across all England, but among the over-40s back then it was still pretty common to hear German-style backwards numbers in English.

moogly 2y ago

We can test your theory by checking how the Danes fared. https://blogs.transparent.com/language-news/2016/08/29/danish-numbers-out-frenching-the-french/ https://blogs.transparent.com/language-news/2016/08/29/danis...

Detrytus 2y ago

I once read an article claiming ghat Chinese are do good at math for two reasons: 1. Their words for Numbers are based on Base-10 system (so no nonsense such as „eleven” and „twelve”) 2. Their words for Numbers are short, one syllabe, so they can keep morę of them in their short term memory at once Not saying there’s any truth to that, but sounds interesting

BrandoElFollito 2y ago

No, because nobody thinks 4*20+16 when saying 96, this is just a string in your head, without any links to 4, 20, 16. This is just a word like "ghdtehbdf"