7 ms·

Ok. And how about making every citizen constantly carry an always-on device from the USA full of sensors and permanent internet access? And how about basing a

Ok. And how about making every citizen constantly carry an always-on device from the USA full of sensors and permanent internet access? And how about basing all infrastructure on these devices, so that nothing works without them? And how about not letting a software ecosystem flurish, so that when robots (cars, humanoid robots, weapons ...) take over, all of them will be controlled by US software?

darkest_ruby 2y ago
Nobody forced you to buy an iPhone, an android alternative has always existed
- ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
  No matter if you use iPhone or Android - in both cases a US company has full control over it.
  - nobankai 2y ago
    Define "full control" for those of us with GrapheneOS installed, pretty please.
- graemep 2y ago
  So a different American company?
- nobankai 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - Clubber 2y ago
    How can iPhone have a monopoly if android exists without redefining the term monopoly? Serious question.
    - matthewdgreen 2y ago
      I think it would be very reasonable to redefine the term monopoly (or "anti-competitiveness") so that it encompasses the closed technical platforms that dominate the 21st century.
      - fsflover 2y ago
        It's called duopoly, and it's not much different.
      - Clubber 2y ago
        Sure, but you can't do that legally without an act of congress, and the DOJ only (in theory) prosecutes when laws are broken. Redefining what a monopoly is doesn't really help in a courtroom.
  - dang 2y ago
    Can you please stop breaking the site guidelines so we don't have to keep banning you? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - nobankai 2y ago
      Can you help me understand how I've broken the site guidelines? Both my comment and the parent's are good faith discussions cut along the same rhetoric this site has tolerated for years. None of the responses are even taking this into flamewar territory, it's a black-and-white pastiche of security versus obscurity. > so we don't have to keep banning you My account has five karma, Dan. One downside of uncommunicated permanent bans is that it precludes the leverage you ordinarily use to encourage reform.
      - dang 2y ago
        Your GP comment broke at least these: "Don't be snarky." "Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents." "Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community." "When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html > One downside of uncommunicated permanent bans is that it precludes the leverage you ordinarily use to encourage reform I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying here. It seems simple to me though: if you'd stop breaking the site guidelines so repeatedly and badly then we'd be happy not to ban you again, and if you won't stop doing that, we have little choice.
- Lyngbakr 2y ago
  Unless you're using Graphene or similar, you're still plugged into a US corporation when using Android.
- bigfudge 2y ago
  This is such a bad argument, because for a functional modern smartphone (for non nerds) you need to get into bed with either Apple or Google. The way out of this is not expecting consumers to install fdroid. It’s putting in place proper regulations to preserve privacy and security for EI societies.
  - nobankai 2y ago
    > It’s putting in place proper regulations to preserve privacy and security That ship sailed so long ago. Not only because national security demanded warrantless backdoors, but because our companies now control regulation. If Tim Cook or Elon Musk take issue with some pesky demands for open architecture or security audits, they complain to Trump and resolve it via EO. Any protest is already quashed. Phone owners who don't actively resist hold no leverage against their OEM. Stuff like F-Droid and PostmarketOS is the solution to this particular problem - people just don't want to admit it. It's easier to give up essential liberty, purchase temporary safety, and demand that you deserve security along with it too. Too few people realize that personal freedom is a necessary precondition to personal safety.
  - fc417fc802 2y ago
    The way out is fixing "you need to get into bed with either Apple or Google" which is the root of the problem.
- everdrive 2y ago
  Android devices run a Google OS and report data to Google. Apple's privacy claims are not actually impressive when inspected, however Android is far, far worse when it comes to privacy violations. It doesn't really matter than the phone itself might be manufactured by a 3rd party. In fact, it could be worse; your data could be excessively leaked to both Samsung and Google, rather than merely Google.
  - jksflkjl3jk3 2y ago
    At least with Pixel you can install GrapheneOS.
    - fsflover 2y ago
      After giving your money directly to Google.
croes 2y ago
That comes on top
beng-nl 2y ago
You’re not wrong, but your point doesn’t diminish the point of the post. Maybe we should discuss one topic at a time so we can make progress somewhere without the implication that progress that isn’t everywhere is progress nowhere?
piskov 2y ago
All this doesn't mean your back-end should be based on something like Microsoft Windows Server with MS Sql Server. Or modern equivalent of serverless Windows Azure. Russians (and everyone closely watching) started that transition almost painlessly in 2014. Have your own search engine. Have your own payment system. Base your infrastructure on open-source. You know, be sovereign, not dependent. The users switching from iOS to Android is just the last mile.
- ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
  That would require banning US services. As the European industry (held down by bureaucracy) does not stand a chance to build solutions that can compete. It seems like this is not on the horizon yet. And in the times of AI, it would probably result in a huge productivity hit.
- bob1029 2y ago
  > All this doesn't mean your back-end should be based on something like Microsoft Windows Server with MS Sql Server. Why the hell not? From a technology perspective (i.e., data/information theory/performance/what HN should be about), MSSQL is really, really hard to beat in a big enterprise ecosystem. This isn't because of decades of prerequisite evil dealings that make it a morally incompatible offering, but because it's been so thoroughly exposed to every possible use case that yours would certainly flow nicely. I've been watching a lot of otherwise really compelling ideas and high energy teams get turned into complete shit due to these ideologies. I can understand a EU tech startup being hesitant toward US-based technology, but in 99% of the cases I hear about, it's a purely American tech company with zero international presence that is making a bunch of noise about how much they hate whatever domestic/paid/"closed" offerings.
- fsflover 2y ago
  > The users switching from iOS to Android Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS (therecord.media) 816 points by gormandizer on March 30, 2021 | 445 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639261 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639261
mmaunder 2y ago
And then fund a lot of talking instead of a lot of doing.
fsflover 2y ago
> making every citizen constantly carry an always-on device from the USA full of sensors and permanent internet access I hope it gives at least some boost to GNU/Linux phones. Librem 5 is my daily driver, and it feels amazing despite its drawbacks. Related: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised (theguardian.com) 676 points by zeristor 1 day ago | 784 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43137488 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43137488
anonymousiam 2y ago
If you believe that the USA has the only government that wants to surveil its citizens, then you should open your eyes. The US possibly has more restrictions on directly surveilling its own citizens (within the US) than any other country. That pesky Fourth Amendment to the Bill of Rights keeps getting in their way, so they've created ways around it, such as allowing allied nations to do the surveillance for them. Every government in the world has mandates that require a surveillance capability. This has been the reason that satellite constellations cannot route traffic directly from user-to-user, but instead must route through "hubs", at a cost of doubling the required, but precious bandwidth.
mrweasel 2y ago
> And how about making every citizen constantly carry an always-on device from the USA Screw that, every EU politician have an iPhone or Android phone, loaded with apps from Meta, X, Tiktok and what have you. Step one should be for our politicians to put some sort of emphasis on their own privacy in relationship to the US, Russia and China.

darkest_ruby 2y ago

Nobody forced you to buy an iPhone, an android alternative has always existed

ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
No matter if you use iPhone or Android - in both cases a US company has full control over it.
- nobankai 2y ago
  Define "full control" for those of us with GrapheneOS installed, pretty please.
graemep 2y ago
So a different American company?
nobankai 2y ago
[flagged]
- Clubber 2y ago
  How can iPhone have a monopoly if android exists without redefining the term monopoly? Serious question.
  - matthewdgreen 2y ago
    I think it would be very reasonable to redefine the term monopoly (or "anti-competitiveness") so that it encompasses the closed technical platforms that dominate the 21st century.
    - fsflover 2y ago
      It's called duopoly, and it's not much different.
    - Clubber 2y ago
      Sure, but you can't do that legally without an act of congress, and the DOJ only (in theory) prosecutes when laws are broken. Redefining what a monopoly is doesn't really help in a courtroom.
- dang 2y ago
  Can you please stop breaking the site guidelines so we don't have to keep banning you? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - nobankai 2y ago
    Can you help me understand how I've broken the site guidelines? Both my comment and the parent's are good faith discussions cut along the same rhetoric this site has tolerated for years. None of the responses are even taking this into flamewar territory, it's a black-and-white pastiche of security versus obscurity. > so we don't have to keep banning you My account has five karma, Dan. One downside of uncommunicated permanent bans is that it precludes the leverage you ordinarily use to encourage reform.
    - dang 2y ago
      Your GP comment broke at least these: "Don't be snarky." "Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents." "Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community." "When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html > One downside of uncommunicated permanent bans is that it precludes the leverage you ordinarily use to encourage reform I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying here. It seems simple to me though: if you'd stop breaking the site guidelines so repeatedly and badly then we'd be happy not to ban you again, and if you won't stop doing that, we have little choice.
Lyngbakr 2y ago
Unless you're using Graphene or similar, you're still plugged into a US corporation when using Android.
bigfudge 2y ago
This is such a bad argument, because for a functional modern smartphone (for non nerds) you need to get into bed with either Apple or Google. The way out of this is not expecting consumers to install fdroid. It’s putting in place proper regulations to preserve privacy and security for EI societies.
- nobankai 2y ago
  > It’s putting in place proper regulations to preserve privacy and security That ship sailed so long ago. Not only because national security demanded warrantless backdoors, but because our companies now control regulation. If Tim Cook or Elon Musk take issue with some pesky demands for open architecture or security audits, they complain to Trump and resolve it via EO. Any protest is already quashed. Phone owners who don't actively resist hold no leverage against their OEM. Stuff like F-Droid and PostmarketOS is the solution to this particular problem - people just don't want to admit it. It's easier to give up essential liberty, purchase temporary safety, and demand that you deserve security along with it too. Too few people realize that personal freedom is a necessary precondition to personal safety.
- fc417fc802 2y ago
  The way out is fixing "you need to get into bed with either Apple or Google" which is the root of the problem.
everdrive 2y ago
Android devices run a Google OS and report data to Google. Apple's privacy claims are not actually impressive when inspected, however Android is far, far worse when it comes to privacy violations. It doesn't really matter than the phone itself might be manufactured by a 3rd party. In fact, it could be worse; your data could be excessively leaked to both Samsung and Google, rather than merely Google.
- jksflkjl3jk3 2y ago
  At least with Pixel you can install GrapheneOS.
  - fsflover 2y ago
    After giving your money directly to Google.

croes 2y ago

That comes on top

beng-nl 2y ago

You’re not wrong, but your point doesn’t diminish the point of the post. Maybe we should discuss one topic at a time so we can make progress somewhere without the implication that progress that isn’t everywhere is progress nowhere?

piskov 2y ago

All this doesn't mean your back-end should be based on something like Microsoft Windows Server with MS Sql Server. Or modern equivalent of serverless Windows Azure. Russians (and everyone closely watching) started that transition almost painlessly in 2014. Have your own search engine. Have your own payment system. Base your infrastructure on open-source. You know, be sovereign, not dependent. The users switching from iOS to Android is just the last mile.

ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
That would require banning US services. As the European industry (held down by bureaucracy) does not stand a chance to build solutions that can compete. It seems like this is not on the horizon yet. And in the times of AI, it would probably result in a huge productivity hit.
bob1029 2y ago
> All this doesn't mean your back-end should be based on something like Microsoft Windows Server with MS Sql Server. Why the hell not? From a technology perspective (i.e., data/information theory/performance/what HN should be about), MSSQL is really, really hard to beat in a big enterprise ecosystem. This isn't because of decades of prerequisite evil dealings that make it a morally incompatible offering, but because it's been so thoroughly exposed to every possible use case that yours would certainly flow nicely. I've been watching a lot of otherwise really compelling ideas and high energy teams get turned into complete shit due to these ideologies. I can understand a EU tech startup being hesitant toward US-based technology, but in 99% of the cases I hear about, it's a purely American tech company with zero international presence that is making a bunch of noise about how much they hate whatever domestic/paid/"closed" offerings.
fsflover 2y ago
> The users switching from iOS to Android Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS (therecord.media) 816 points by gormandizer on March 30, 2021 | 445 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639261 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639261

mmaunder 2y ago

And then fund a lot of talking instead of a lot of doing.

fsflover 2y ago

> making every citizen constantly carry an always-on device from the USA full of sensors and permanent internet access I hope it gives at least some boost to GNU/Linux phones. Librem 5 is my daily driver, and it feels amazing despite its drawbacks. Related: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised (theguardian.com) 676 points by zeristor 1 day ago | 784 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43137488 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43137488

anonymousiam 2y ago

If you believe that the USA has the only government that wants to surveil its citizens, then you should open your eyes. The US possibly has more restrictions on directly surveilling its own citizens (within the US) than any other country. That pesky Fourth Amendment to the Bill of Rights keeps getting in their way, so they've created ways around it, such as allowing allied nations to do the surveillance for them. Every government in the world has mandates that require a surveillance capability. This has been the reason that satellite constellations cannot route traffic directly from user-to-user, but instead must route through "hubs", at a cost of doubling the required, but precious bandwidth.

mrweasel 2y ago

> And how about making every citizen constantly carry an always-on device from the USA Screw that, every EU politician have an iPhone or Android phone, loaded with apps from Meta, X, Tiktok and what have you. Step one should be for our politicians to put some sort of emphasis on their own privacy in relationship to the US, Russia and China.