4 ms·

“exercise intolerance, excessive fatigue, brain fog, insomnia, and dizziness” Seems like a lot of overlap with with “Long COVID” etc https://www.cdc.gov/covid/

by Retric 2y ago

“exercise intolerance, excessive fatigue, brain fog, insomnia, and dizziness” Seems like a lot of overlap with with “Long COVID” etc https://www.cdc.gov/covid/long-term-effects/long-covid-signs-symptoms.html https://www.cdc.gov/covid/long-term-effects/long-covid-signs... Would be interesting if the vaccine was simply excessively powerful in doing its job rather than a more direct issue. Like thanks for saving millions of lives, but did you have to be so loud?

cempaka 2y ago
[flagged]
- mattmaroon 2y ago
  There were probably hundreds of thousands saved in even in what at the time were considered very low risk demos. It may be over 1 million (if you mutliply infection fatality rate times number of people in the 0-49 age demo, you get just over a million). And, perhaps more relevant, the vaccine probably prevented a numer of long covid cases that is a multiple of that and many times higher than the reaction this article is writing about. It was in no way reckless. All interventions have risk. If a vacccine saves a life/prevents long term illness for 10x as many people as it hurts, it's a highly positive intervention, and the numbers for these were probably much better than 10x.
- logicchains 2y ago
  Recent data ( https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/medicine/articles/10.3389/fmed.2024.1495428/full https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/medicine/articles/10.33... ) suggests that any lives saved may only have been saved in the medium term; "In the medium-term post-COVID period, the risk of death was reduced by 8% for those who had been vaccinated while in the long-term post-COVID period, the risk of death almost doubled for those who had been vaccinated. While in the medium term, there was a reduction in mortality risk for those who took two or three doses, in the long term the risk of death was greater for those who took one or two doses."
  - Retric 2y ago
    All lives are only saved in the medium term, humans age and die. > the risk of death almost doubled for those who had been vaccinated Not when you adjust for age. People who survived COVID after vaccination being an older population then end up dying faster, but few people die in any given year. Doubling the base death rate suggests the populations will equalize in roughly 35 years. Though some people who survived the vaccine will still be alive in 40 years. PS: The 8% decrease and doubling are looking at wildly different underlying populations/rates.
  - cempaka 2y ago
    All of the data that would be needed to answer this question is hopelessly confounded and corrupted. There wasn't even reliable tracking of the highly gamed definition of "vaccinated" in the first place. The only real control group that ever existed was in the manufacturers' trials, and the only thing they attempted to measure was prevention of symptomatic infection.
- N2yhWNXQN3k9 2y ago
  Evidence?
rcpt 2y ago
Like "Long COVID", "post covid vaccine syndrome" is probably psychosomatic.
- N2yhWNXQN3k9 2y ago
  > Like "Long COVID", "post covid vaccine syndrome" is probably psychosomatic. Evidence?
  - rcpt 2y ago
    Lots of research on Long COVID points this way https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9825049/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9825049/ Not to say it isn't real. It is. But just like back pain or headaches there's a good chance it's mostly explained by psychology.
    - Retric 2y ago
      A doctor dismissing something they don’t know the cause of as psychological is common, but that doesn’t mean the diagnosis is correct. Many things used to be thought of as psychological before we found the underlying physical causes. It’s just as meaningless an explanation as “God did it.”
      - rcpt 2y ago
        A collection of papers with citations and data isn't "a doctor dismissing something they don't know"
        Retric 2y ago
        Those examples I referred to where the generally accepted practice not just individual opinions. IE many doctors/researchers all dismissed the same thing.
- Anonbrit 2y ago
  There's a whole article there talking about measurable immune system changes from post-vaccine syndrome... How do you explain those away? Psychosomatic changes to White blood cell counts?
TacticalCoder 2y ago
[dead]

by Retric 2y ago

cempaka 2y ago

[flagged]

mattmaroon 2y ago
There were probably hundreds of thousands saved in even in what at the time were considered very low risk demos. It may be over 1 million (if you mutliply infection fatality rate times number of people in the 0-49 age demo, you get just over a million). And, perhaps more relevant, the vaccine probably prevented a numer of long covid cases that is a multiple of that and many times higher than the reaction this article is writing about. It was in no way reckless. All interventions have risk. If a vacccine saves a life/prevents long term illness for 10x as many people as it hurts, it's a highly positive intervention, and the numbers for these were probably much better than 10x.
logicchains 2y ago
Recent data ( https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/medicine/articles/10.3389/fmed.2024.1495428/full https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/medicine/articles/10.33... ) suggests that any lives saved may only have been saved in the medium term; "In the medium-term post-COVID period, the risk of death was reduced by 8% for those who had been vaccinated while in the long-term post-COVID period, the risk of death almost doubled for those who had been vaccinated. While in the medium term, there was a reduction in mortality risk for those who took two or three doses, in the long term the risk of death was greater for those who took one or two doses."
- Retric 2y ago
  All lives are only saved in the medium term, humans age and die. > the risk of death almost doubled for those who had been vaccinated Not when you adjust for age. People who survived COVID after vaccination being an older population then end up dying faster, but few people die in any given year. Doubling the base death rate suggests the populations will equalize in roughly 35 years. Though some people who survived the vaccine will still be alive in 40 years. PS: The 8% decrease and doubling are looking at wildly different underlying populations/rates.
- cempaka 2y ago
  All of the data that would be needed to answer this question is hopelessly confounded and corrupted. There wasn't even reliable tracking of the highly gamed definition of "vaccinated" in the first place. The only real control group that ever existed was in the manufacturers' trials, and the only thing they attempted to measure was prevention of symptomatic infection.
N2yhWNXQN3k9 2y ago
Evidence?

rcpt 2y ago

Like "Long COVID", "post covid vaccine syndrome" is probably psychosomatic.

N2yhWNXQN3k9 2y ago
> Like "Long COVID", "post covid vaccine syndrome" is probably psychosomatic. Evidence?
- rcpt 2y ago
  Lots of research on Long COVID points this way https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9825049/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9825049/ Not to say it isn't real. It is. But just like back pain or headaches there's a good chance it's mostly explained by psychology.
  - Retric 2y ago
    A doctor dismissing something they don’t know the cause of as psychological is common, but that doesn’t mean the diagnosis is correct. Many things used to be thought of as psychological before we found the underlying physical causes. It’s just as meaningless an explanation as “God did it.”
    - rcpt 2y ago
      A collection of papers with citations and data isn't "a doctor dismissing something they don't know"
      - Retric 2y ago
        Those examples I referred to where the generally accepted practice not just individual opinions. IE many doctors/researchers all dismissed the same thing.
Anonbrit 2y ago
There's a whole article there talking about measurable immune system changes from post-vaccine syndrome... How do you explain those away? Psychosomatic changes to White blood cell counts?

TacticalCoder 2y ago

[dead]