4 ms·

Its never been a good idea. I do not think non-EU European countries can rely on EU cloud, not can EU countries can necessarily rely on each other. The only ef

Its never been a good idea. I do not think non-EU European countries can rely on EU cloud, not can EU countries can necessarily rely on each other. The only effect the distrust of the current US government will have is a few articles. It expensive and difficult for this to be sufficient incentive to change anything. We should probably grateful they have not put it all on Chinese clouds.

watwut 2y ago
America is literally allying itself with Russia, trying to turn Ukraine into basically colony (by demanding their resources forever), threatening annexation of Canada (repeatedly). Oh, and in the process of starting a trade war. Non-EU can trust EU waaay more then anyone except Russia can trust to America. American leadership made it clear that norms, laws or morality are only for suckers. The levels of behaviors between the sides here are not symmetrical
- whimsicalism 2y ago
  EU also demands resources in exchange for military support such as the French+UK-led intervention into Libya. Saying US is an ally of Russia is a pretty big stretch, meanwhile the EU has members that are actually allied with Russia and lots of large Russia-aligned multinationals like Gunvor
  - serial_dev 2y ago
    I don’t get why you are downvoted. Every war that the NATO countries somehow miraculously got involved in is an economic war for natural resources and control, and the big EU countries always take their share of the pie. Ukraine’s resources, one way or another, will be split up between Russia, EU, and the US (or more precisely it will end up in the hands of the oligarchs and “black rocks” of these countries).
    - msm_ 2y ago
      Ukraine's resources belong to Ukraine, and will return to Ukraine, as soon as Russia stops their unprovoked and unjustified assault.
      - serial_dev 2y ago
        I most certainly did not say who Ukraine's resources belong to, I'm saying that I predict that no matter how and when the war ends, I'm afraid the country's resources will be split up between the superpowers. It's not what I want, not what I advocate for, it's just what I foresee happening.
      - cscurmudgeon 2y ago
        Shouldn’t America’s resources (money, military support, Starlink, etc.) then belong to America?
        epistasis 2y ago
        Of course? How is that even in question. The US promised protection to Ukraine for giving up its nuclear weapons, then freely gave much aid as it was in its mown interests to do so.
    - rmu09 2y ago
      Like in serbia with operation "Allied Force"? You can question the official story, but that was not for control over natural resources.
    - AnonymousPlanet 2y ago
      What natural resources or economic values was the Kosovo war in 1999 about? What other incentives than control, resources or economics do wars in general have? Why do you hold the countries you mentioned to higher standards?
    - radicalbyte 2y ago
      You mean the EU's war in Kuwait, Iraq and Afghanistan which resulted in EU companies such as Exxon Mobile getting even richer off of the oil contracts? Sorry I mean American's wars, not the EU's wars. The EU hasn't really done resource wars since the colonial times.
  - Axsuul 2y ago
    To further expand on that, Europe gave aid to Ukraine as a form of a loan with the interest being paid back based off of Russian frozen assets.
- rdtsc 2y ago
  > America is literally allying itself with Russia, trying to turn Ukraine into basically colony (by demanding their resources forever) It was Ukraine/Zelensky who suggested that first not Trump. It was back in November. But we tend to forget such things for some reason... From https://www.ft.com/content/623c197f-6952-4229-bfbc-0a96e43d6f2d https://www.ft.com/content/623c197f-6952-4229-bfbc-0a96e43d6... > Two of the ideas were laid out in Volodymyr Zelensky’s “victory plan” with Trump specifically in mind, said people involved in drawing it up. The proposals were later presented to Trump when Ukraine’s president met him in New York in September. So Trump agreed eventually and then Zelensky started a media storm about how Trump wants take their natural resources and turn them into a colony. And everyone somehow immediately forgot that the proposal originated with Ukranian government. > The levels of behaviors between the sides here are not symmetrical It comes from a fundamentally different perceptions of reality and politics. There is idea that things have to be just and fair. And when they are not we like to say "it's not fair" and someone comes and fixes it. I am afraid it just doesn't work like that past the childhood age. > American leadership made it clear that norms, laws or morality are only for suckers. When weren't they? You're thinking maybe everyone just finally woke up? Morality and laws do not apply in practice on the international arena. It would be nice if they did, I agree, but they don't currently. EU should have always had it's own strong army, it should have never trusted the US and not relied on them for protection. But they also shouldn't have been buying energy from Putin and funding his operation for years.
  - def_true_false 2y ago
    The real problem with the resources deal was the lack of security guarantees.
    - rdtsc 2y ago
      That was the security guarantee: having the presence of US mining companies there. Honestly, I don't really think US really needs Ukraine's mineral resources. US has plenty of its own to extract. But it was a pretext to invest and increase US presence there. At some point Ukraine will run out of men. As much as I want to, I don't see US troops deployed to Ukraine, maybe EU can send its troops? Biden said as much at the start of the war, too, and it's still true. At this point I don't see a Ukrainian victory over Russia and going back to 1992 borders. They will have to give a lot of things up and the longer it waits, the worse its negotiate position will be.
- Axsuul 2y ago
  It's a bit premature to call it an alliance. So far there have only been talks. > trying to turn Ukraine into basically colony (by demanding their resources forever) Keep in mind it was Ukraine that proposed the idea of offering their resources back in October 2024[0] 0. https://www.cfr.org/expert-brief/zelenskyys-victory-plan-ukraine-makes-sense-it-has-little-chance-being-implemented https://www.cfr.org/expert-brief/zelenskyys-victory-plan-ukr...
  - dralley 2y ago
    >Keep in mind it was Ukraine that proposed the idea of offering their resources back in October 2024[0] The general idea, sure. They offered that in return for security guarantees or as collateral for continued military aid. That is not what is being offered them by this administration. Instead the administration has chosen the mafia shakedown route. American military aid to Ukraine to date amounts to around $100 billion dollars (and we're not talking stacks of cash here but rather the "value" of military hardware, much of which already had an expiration date and was literally designed and built for the Russia-invades-Europe scenario). But Trump is demanding $500 million from Ukraine, and offering zero in return. As of today many concessions have been demanded from Ukraine, but zero concessions have been asked of Russia - much the opposite actually.
    - Axsuul 2y ago
      It's not zero in return, why would Ukraine agree to that? Where is your source that it was zero in return? > and we're not talking stacks of cash here but rather the "value" of military hardware, much of which already had an expiration date and was literally designed and built for the Russia-invades-Europe scenario That's not true at all, US has sent billions of financial aid[0]. Compare that to Europe's aid which was majority in the form of loans, which Europe gets to collect interest on based off of frozen Russian assets. 0. https://www.ukraineoversight.gov/Funding/ https://www.ukraineoversight.gov/Funding/
      - dralley 2y ago
        >It's not zero in return, why would Ukraine agree to that? Where is your source that it was zero in return? It is zero in return and that's why Ukraine have not agreed to either of the two versions of the deal. The vast majority of the aid is not financial aid, it's physical hardware.
altacc 2y ago
I work at an large Europe based multi-national and hosting has always been a concern due to the big differences in data protection and privacy rules. We never use a service not hosted in the EEA. The current threats that the US is making to Europe about it's data protection, privacy, consumer protection, etc... laws is very much of concern and is already beginning to be a factor in our ongoing RFPs and procurement process. We're not just following the law, we also don't trust some companies with our reputation.
- graemep 2y ago
  A lot of European companies and organisations use services provided by American companies but run on servers in Europe. In the UK the NHS uses AWS, the courts use MS teams, etc.

watwut 2y ago

America is literally allying itself with Russia, trying to turn Ukraine into basically colony (by demanding their resources forever), threatening annexation of Canada (repeatedly). Oh, and in the process of starting a trade war. Non-EU can trust EU waaay more then anyone except Russia can trust to America. American leadership made it clear that norms, laws or morality are only for suckers. The levels of behaviors between the sides here are not symmetrical

whimsicalism 2y ago
EU also demands resources in exchange for military support such as the French+UK-led intervention into Libya. Saying US is an ally of Russia is a pretty big stretch, meanwhile the EU has members that are actually allied with Russia and lots of large Russia-aligned multinationals like Gunvor
- serial_dev 2y ago
  I don’t get why you are downvoted. Every war that the NATO countries somehow miraculously got involved in is an economic war for natural resources and control, and the big EU countries always take their share of the pie. Ukraine’s resources, one way or another, will be split up between Russia, EU, and the US (or more precisely it will end up in the hands of the oligarchs and “black rocks” of these countries).
  - msm_ 2y ago
    Ukraine's resources belong to Ukraine, and will return to Ukraine, as soon as Russia stops their unprovoked and unjustified assault.
    - serial_dev 2y ago
      I most certainly did not say who Ukraine's resources belong to, I'm saying that I predict that no matter how and when the war ends, I'm afraid the country's resources will be split up between the superpowers. It's not what I want, not what I advocate for, it's just what I foresee happening.
    - cscurmudgeon 2y ago
      Shouldn’t America’s resources (money, military support, Starlink, etc.) then belong to America?
      - epistasis 2y ago
        Of course? How is that even in question. The US promised protection to Ukraine for giving up its nuclear weapons, then freely gave much aid as it was in its mown interests to do so.
  - rmu09 2y ago
    Like in serbia with operation "Allied Force"? You can question the official story, but that was not for control over natural resources.
  - AnonymousPlanet 2y ago
    What natural resources or economic values was the Kosovo war in 1999 about? What other incentives than control, resources or economics do wars in general have? Why do you hold the countries you mentioned to higher standards?
  - radicalbyte 2y ago
    You mean the EU's war in Kuwait, Iraq and Afghanistan which resulted in EU companies such as Exxon Mobile getting even richer off of the oil contracts? Sorry I mean American's wars, not the EU's wars. The EU hasn't really done resource wars since the colonial times.
- Axsuul 2y ago
  To further expand on that, Europe gave aid to Ukraine as a form of a loan with the interest being paid back based off of Russian frozen assets.
rdtsc 2y ago
> America is literally allying itself with Russia, trying to turn Ukraine into basically colony (by demanding their resources forever) It was Ukraine/Zelensky who suggested that first not Trump. It was back in November. But we tend to forget such things for some reason... From https://www.ft.com/content/623c197f-6952-4229-bfbc-0a96e43d6f2d https://www.ft.com/content/623c197f-6952-4229-bfbc-0a96e43d6... > Two of the ideas were laid out in Volodymyr Zelensky’s “victory plan” with Trump specifically in mind, said people involved in drawing it up. The proposals were later presented to Trump when Ukraine’s president met him in New York in September. So Trump agreed eventually and then Zelensky started a media storm about how Trump wants take their natural resources and turn them into a colony. And everyone somehow immediately forgot that the proposal originated with Ukranian government. > The levels of behaviors between the sides here are not symmetrical It comes from a fundamentally different perceptions of reality and politics. There is idea that things have to be just and fair. And when they are not we like to say "it's not fair" and someone comes and fixes it. I am afraid it just doesn't work like that past the childhood age. > American leadership made it clear that norms, laws or morality are only for suckers. When weren't they? You're thinking maybe everyone just finally woke up? Morality and laws do not apply in practice on the international arena. It would be nice if they did, I agree, but they don't currently. EU should have always had it's own strong army, it should have never trusted the US and not relied on them for protection. But they also shouldn't have been buying energy from Putin and funding his operation for years.
- def_true_false 2y ago
  The real problem with the resources deal was the lack of security guarantees.
  - rdtsc 2y ago
    That was the security guarantee: having the presence of US mining companies there. Honestly, I don't really think US really needs Ukraine's mineral resources. US has plenty of its own to extract. But it was a pretext to invest and increase US presence there. At some point Ukraine will run out of men. As much as I want to, I don't see US troops deployed to Ukraine, maybe EU can send its troops? Biden said as much at the start of the war, too, and it's still true. At this point I don't see a Ukrainian victory over Russia and going back to 1992 borders. They will have to give a lot of things up and the longer it waits, the worse its negotiate position will be.
Axsuul 2y ago
It's a bit premature to call it an alliance. So far there have only been talks. > trying to turn Ukraine into basically colony (by demanding their resources forever) Keep in mind it was Ukraine that proposed the idea of offering their resources back in October 2024[0] 0. https://www.cfr.org/expert-brief/zelenskyys-victory-plan-ukraine-makes-sense-it-has-little-chance-being-implemented https://www.cfr.org/expert-brief/zelenskyys-victory-plan-ukr...
- dralley 2y ago
  >Keep in mind it was Ukraine that proposed the idea of offering their resources back in October 2024[0] The general idea, sure. They offered that in return for security guarantees or as collateral for continued military aid. That is not what is being offered them by this administration. Instead the administration has chosen the mafia shakedown route. American military aid to Ukraine to date amounts to around $100 billion dollars (and we're not talking stacks of cash here but rather the "value" of military hardware, much of which already had an expiration date and was literally designed and built for the Russia-invades-Europe scenario). But Trump is demanding $500 million from Ukraine, and offering zero in return. As of today many concessions have been demanded from Ukraine, but zero concessions have been asked of Russia - much the opposite actually.
  - Axsuul 2y ago
    It's not zero in return, why would Ukraine agree to that? Where is your source that it was zero in return? > and we're not talking stacks of cash here but rather the "value" of military hardware, much of which already had an expiration date and was literally designed and built for the Russia-invades-Europe scenario That's not true at all, US has sent billions of financial aid[0]. Compare that to Europe's aid which was majority in the form of loans, which Europe gets to collect interest on based off of frozen Russian assets. 0. https://www.ukraineoversight.gov/Funding/ https://www.ukraineoversight.gov/Funding/
    - dralley 2y ago
      >It's not zero in return, why would Ukraine agree to that? Where is your source that it was zero in return? It is zero in return and that's why Ukraine have not agreed to either of the two versions of the deal. The vast majority of the aid is not financial aid, it's physical hardware.

altacc 2y ago

I work at an large Europe based multi-national and hosting has always been a concern due to the big differences in data protection and privacy rules. We never use a service not hosted in the EEA. The current threats that the US is making to Europe about it's data protection, privacy, consumer protection, etc... laws is very much of concern and is already beginning to be a factor in our ongoing RFPs and procurement process. We're not just following the law, we also don't trust some companies with our reputation.

graemep 2y ago
A lot of European companies and organisations use services provided by American companies but run on servers in Europe. In the UK the NHS uses AWS, the courts use MS teams, etc.