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There are many EU-native cloud alternatives. https://european-alternatives.eu/category/cloud-computing-platforms https://european-alternatives.eu/category/clou

There are many EU-native cloud alternatives. https://european-alternatives.eu/category/cloud-computing-platforms https://european-alternatives.eu/category/cloud-computing-pl... Hetzner is another big one that is for some reason not listed.

blagie 2y ago
Most of them are horrible. I'd love to have a good Google Docs alternative. No one has made one. Nextcloud is the closest we've got, and I use it sometimes, but it's pretty bad. It's a lot less hard to build in 2025, and hopefully, someone will now.
- ranger_danger 2y ago
  https://github.com/ONLYOFFICE https://github.com/ONLYOFFICE https://github.com/dream-num/univer https://github.com/dream-num/univer https://github.com/ether/etherpad-lite https://github.com/ether/etherpad-lite https://github.com/firebase/firepad https://github.com/firebase/firepad https://github.com/prosemirror https://github.com/prosemirror https://github.com/CollaboraOnline/online https://github.com/CollaboraOnline/online https://github.com/hedgedoc/hedgedoc https://github.com/hedgedoc/hedgedoc https://github.com/gobby/gobby https://github.com/gobby/gobby
  - darthwalsh 2y ago
    Can't comment on the other options, but a tool that requires proprietary Google Cloud Firebase is not a great option for ditching Google.
- soundnote 2y ago
  Proton Docs has seemed fine to me.
otterley 2y ago
Hetzner isn’t really a full-service cloud provider. They provide machines and storage for rent. It’s the first rung on the ladder to becoming a cloud provider, but they’ve got a long way to go.
- ranger_danger 2y ago
  What is missing from here that prevents you from calling it full-service? https://www.hetzner.com/cloud https://www.hetzner.com/cloud
  - otterley 2y ago
    Spend some time comparing with AWS, GCP, Azure, or even Oracle Cloud or Alibaba Cloud, and it should be pretty clear.
    - sam_lowry_ 2y ago
      Complexity does not equal completeness.
      - otterley 2y ago
        That’s a cute pithy statement, but it’s not particularly relevant. For example, Hetzner doesn’t even offer database services. Some would consider those to be table stakes to run their application. Does it add complexity? Potentially. But we accept some additional complexity if it yields incremental value. If you don’t value the additional functionality cloud providers offer, that’s fine. But lots of people do. Certainly, unnecessary complexity should be avoided. But it’s a bit naive to associate comprehensiveness with complexity. They’re not entirely identical.
        sam_lowry_ 2y ago
        > For example, Hetzner doesn’t even offer database services. I am totally OK setting up my own database software on Hetzner. I understand that some people are used to "cloud" spoon-feeding them what they need and even what they really don't, but I perceive this as a nuisance.
        otterley 2y ago
        What you call “spoon feeding” is what another calls “value adding.” Additional security, automated failover, automated backups, and automated version upgrades are key features, and a lot of people value them. It often means their customers don’t have to hire expensive domain experts (or can hire fewer of them) and can instead focus their resources on more direct value creation.
magicalhippo 2y ago
Like, of those, which provide managed services like storage (blob and smb), ampq message queue, databases in a fairly cohesive way and easily accessible from C#? I just checked a handful but didn't see any.

blagie 2y ago

Most of them are horrible. I'd love to have a good Google Docs alternative. No one has made one. Nextcloud is the closest we've got, and I use it sometimes, but it's pretty bad. It's a lot less hard to build in 2025, and hopefully, someone will now.

ranger_danger 2y ago
https://github.com/ONLYOFFICE https://github.com/ONLYOFFICE https://github.com/dream-num/univer https://github.com/dream-num/univer https://github.com/ether/etherpad-lite https://github.com/ether/etherpad-lite https://github.com/firebase/firepad https://github.com/firebase/firepad https://github.com/prosemirror https://github.com/prosemirror https://github.com/CollaboraOnline/online https://github.com/CollaboraOnline/online https://github.com/hedgedoc/hedgedoc https://github.com/hedgedoc/hedgedoc https://github.com/gobby/gobby https://github.com/gobby/gobby
- darthwalsh 2y ago
  Can't comment on the other options, but a tool that requires proprietary Google Cloud Firebase is not a great option for ditching Google.
soundnote 2y ago
Proton Docs has seemed fine to me.

otterley 2y ago

Hetzner isn’t really a full-service cloud provider. They provide machines and storage for rent. It’s the first rung on the ladder to becoming a cloud provider, but they’ve got a long way to go.

ranger_danger 2y ago
What is missing from here that prevents you from calling it full-service? https://www.hetzner.com/cloud https://www.hetzner.com/cloud
- otterley 2y ago
  Spend some time comparing with AWS, GCP, Azure, or even Oracle Cloud or Alibaba Cloud, and it should be pretty clear.
  - sam_lowry_ 2y ago
    Complexity does not equal completeness.
    - otterley 2y ago
      That’s a cute pithy statement, but it’s not particularly relevant. For example, Hetzner doesn’t even offer database services. Some would consider those to be table stakes to run their application. Does it add complexity? Potentially. But we accept some additional complexity if it yields incremental value. If you don’t value the additional functionality cloud providers offer, that’s fine. But lots of people do. Certainly, unnecessary complexity should be avoided. But it’s a bit naive to associate comprehensiveness with complexity. They’re not entirely identical.
      - sam_lowry_ 2y ago
        > For example, Hetzner doesn’t even offer database services. I am totally OK setting up my own database software on Hetzner. I understand that some people are used to "cloud" spoon-feeding them what they need and even what they really don't, but I perceive this as a nuisance.
        otterley 2y ago
        What you call “spoon feeding” is what another calls “value adding.” Additional security, automated failover, automated backups, and automated version upgrades are key features, and a lot of people value them. It often means their customers don’t have to hire expensive domain experts (or can hire fewer of them) and can instead focus their resources on more direct value creation.

magicalhippo 2y ago

Like, of those, which provide managed services like storage (blob and smb), ampq message queue, databases in a fairly cohesive way and easily accessible from C#? I just checked a handful but didn't see any.