3 ms·

From Germany, a bold political push for a billionaire-free future

11 points by geox 2y ago

skulk 2y ago
All this talk of poverty, but will no one think of the poor captains of industry whose wealth is being unjustly stripped from them? Whose runaway wealth accumulation, no doubt a product of their superior intellect and genetics and grit, is being unfairly curtailed in order to feed worthless parasites? How can we expect anyone to be entrepreneurial when once they achieve a modicum of success, they receive a huge slap in the face penalizing their success? Oh, the horror. AfD represents a sane world where, with enough startup capital and can-do attitude, anyone can become the modern equivalent of a feudal lord, as Father Nature intended.
LinuxBender 2y ago
A wealth tax sounds like a great way to push all the wealthy out of the country or make them find ways to hide their wealth. Any global economist experts here have any ideas what unintended consequences may result from this?
- lm28469 2y ago
  Let's not even try then!
- meristohm 2y ago
  What happens if enough countries implement a progressive tax? Billionaires make money off control of land, labor, and money. If they don't pay enough taxes back into the system that sustains their game, and if they don't colonize Mars (etc) quickly enough, the jig's up. I and most (all?) other "poors" don't need power/resources/money concentrated under a small percentage of individuals. They need us, though, to support the pyramid.
  - TomK32 2y ago
    Not sure if you confused progressive tax with something else: > Most systems around the world contain progressive aspects. When taxable income falls within a particular tax bracket, the individual pays the listed percentage of tax on each dollar that falls within that monetary range. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_tax#Examples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_tax#Examples The article though mentioned progressive tax: "In 1917, for instance, a bold group of American progressives proposed a tax rate of 100 percent on annual income over $100,000, the equivalent of nearly $2.5 million in today’s dollars. A generation later, in 1942, President Franklin Roosevelt asked Congress to place that same 100-percent tax rate on America’s most affluent." I don't think a progressive wealth tax (100% over 999 million leaves every billioniare with plenty of month) would stand the courts, but a high 90% for income over say a million would stand and not unreasonable in times of high state debt. The net hourly rate of someone with that income (and workload?) would still be an absurd multiple of the minimum wage per hour.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  We find people all the time who have committed crimes. We can’t find wealth? To own something, others must know and respect you own it. It is a shared delusion.
  - gruez 2y ago
    >We find people all the time who have committed crimes. The murder clearance rate is only 50% in the US, and that's with relatively dumb people committing the murders. The rich on the other hand have Ivy League tax lawyers and accountants to optimize/obfuscate their wealth.
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      A perfect system does not exist, simply one that does and can continually improve is needed. Perfect is impossible, and hardly a reasonable target.
- TomK32 2y ago
  Most parts of Switzerland, France, Spain (though only 2023-2025 to counter inflation), Norway, India, Lichtenstein, Japan, Luxembourg (only legal entities), Greece all currently have a wealth tax (according to de.wikipedia.org). It's a broad enough mix to counter your claim that a wealth tax would push all wealthy out of the country. To counter the wealth tax you have to invest with a potential higher return, thus forcing the wealthy to spend it on other thing than yet another car or boat that just sits idle.
TomK32 2y ago
Germany collected a wealth tax until 1995 when the highest court pointed out that the valuation of real estate property needs overhauling. The then CDU/CSU-FDP government decided to nothing about it and the wealth tax hence couldn't be collected but the law is still in place. All it takes is some small repair.

11 points by geox 2y ago

All this talk of poverty, but will no one think of the poor captains of industry whose wealth is being unjustly stripped from them? Whose runaway wealth accumulation, no doubt a product of their superior intellect and genetics and grit, is being unfairly curtailed in order to feed worthless parasites? How can we expect anyone to be entrepreneurial when once they achieve a modicum of success, they receive a huge slap in the face penalizing their success? Oh, the horror. AfD represents a sane world where, with enough startup capital and can-do attitude, anyone can become the modern equivalent of a feudal lord, as Father Nature intended.

LinuxBender 2y ago

A wealth tax sounds like a great way to push all the wealthy out of the country or make them find ways to hide their wealth. Any global economist experts here have any ideas what unintended consequences may result from this?

lm28469 2y ago
Let's not even try then!
meristohm 2y ago
What happens if enough countries implement a progressive tax? Billionaires make money off control of land, labor, and money. If they don't pay enough taxes back into the system that sustains their game, and if they don't colonize Mars (etc) quickly enough, the jig's up. I and most (all?) other "poors" don't need power/resources/money concentrated under a small percentage of individuals. They need us, though, to support the pyramid.
- TomK32 2y ago
  Not sure if you confused progressive tax with something else: > Most systems around the world contain progressive aspects. When taxable income falls within a particular tax bracket, the individual pays the listed percentage of tax on each dollar that falls within that monetary range. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_tax#Examples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_tax#Examples The article though mentioned progressive tax: "In 1917, for instance, a bold group of American progressives proposed a tax rate of 100 percent on annual income over $100,000, the equivalent of nearly $2.5 million in today’s dollars. A generation later, in 1942, President Franklin Roosevelt asked Congress to place that same 100-percent tax rate on America’s most affluent." I don't think a progressive wealth tax (100% over 999 million leaves every billioniare with plenty of month) would stand the courts, but a high 90% for income over say a million would stand and not unreasonable in times of high state debt. The net hourly rate of someone with that income (and workload?) would still be an absurd multiple of the minimum wage per hour.
toomuchtodo 2y ago
We find people all the time who have committed crimes. We can’t find wealth? To own something, others must know and respect you own it. It is a shared delusion.
- gruez 2y ago
  >We find people all the time who have committed crimes. The murder clearance rate is only 50% in the US, and that's with relatively dumb people committing the murders. The rich on the other hand have Ivy League tax lawyers and accountants to optimize/obfuscate their wealth.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    A perfect system does not exist, simply one that does and can continually improve is needed. Perfect is impossible, and hardly a reasonable target.
TomK32 2y ago
Most parts of Switzerland, France, Spain (though only 2023-2025 to counter inflation), Norway, India, Lichtenstein, Japan, Luxembourg (only legal entities), Greece all currently have a wealth tax (according to de.wikipedia.org). It's a broad enough mix to counter your claim that a wealth tax would push all wealthy out of the country. To counter the wealth tax you have to invest with a potential higher return, thus forcing the wealthy to spend it on other thing than yet another car or boat that just sits idle.

TomK32 2y ago

Germany collected a wealth tax until 1995 when the highest court pointed out that the valuation of real estate property needs overhauling. The then CDU/CSU-FDP government decided to nothing about it and the wealth tax hence couldn't be collected but the law is still in place. All it takes is some small repair.