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I have always believed that the concept of a college should be abolished for bachelor's degrees - the concepts can and should be learned on one's own via learni

I have always believed that the concept of a college should be abolished for bachelor's degrees - the concepts can and should be learned on one's own via learning materials, lots of practice, simulations, and an eventual certification. Education should truly become accessible to all. Currently it is nothing but a moneygrubbing racket. A college makes sense for doctorate level programs only.

LVB 2y ago
For some areas, yes. But for studies that have a meaning lab/shop component, the university setting is quite practice.
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  That is vocational training. There isn't a strong need for a full-blown college degree for it unless one is also tasked with improving the process.
  - LVB 2y ago
    I'm talking about something like electrical or mechanical engineering.
jtmarl1n 2y ago
Strongly disagree. Part of the value of college is new experiences and being exposed to people and things you wouldn't be otherwise. Removing these experiences only reinforces the idea that the only benefit to college and university is to churn out worker drones.
- jaco6 2y ago
  [dead]
- qudat 2y ago
  Meh, turn that aspect into smaller “camps” or apprenticeship programs without the insane price tag. People can get new experiences and meet people in much more efficient ways.
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  I understand but it's not worth the price tag or even close. There ought to be 10x more price efficient ways of getting that experience if not for free altogether.
- dworkr 2y ago
  Maslow's pyramid is a thing. Once you are financially secure, those other levels of good stuff open up. For most common folk, college is about financial security because that is what they don't have. If you are born into a financially secure family, you cannot understand that and may give really had advice to poorer folks.
hollywood_court 2y ago
I'm not sure if bachelor's degrees should be abolished. But we need to start recognizing that most college degrees aren't required to do most jobs, and it's basically rent-seeking behavior. I've helped interview and hire three additional software engineers for my teams over the past 2.5 years. None of the applicants with a B.S. in SWE could hold a candle to the self-taught applicants. Those are my anecdotes, but we interviewed multiple applicants with B.S SWE degrees from Auburn, the University of Alabama, and the University of Tennessee. None of them were close to being as prepared as the applicants, who were a little older and had no college degrees but decided to pursue SWE independently. I had a very successful career in construction when I was a young man. First, I wore a tool belt, and then I got into commercial construction management. I work for one of the Top 5 builders in the world. I decided to move back to the states and put down some roots. I expected to land a construction management job in Auburn easily. However, none of the companies would even give me a chance to interview because I didn't have a B.S. in Building Science from Auburn. As it turns out, everyone and their mother has a Building Science degree from Auburn. So, I also decided to pursue one until I learned how much the people were earning. They were spending ~$100k on a degree only to graduate and earn far less than I earned while wearing a tool belt. So, I put my tool belt back on and went to work. I pivoted into SWE a few years ago without a degree. However, to get to the executive level, the head of our company suggested that I obtain a degree. So, I completed an SWE degree at WGU. I didn't learn anything while pursuing the degree, but at least I have that piece of paper hanging in my office now. I have many more anecdotes I could share to show why I think most college degrees are rent-seeking behavior, but I guess anecdotes don't account for much at the end of the day.
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  Your self-disagreement, as manifested in your first two paragraphs, should be eating you alive, but it isn't because you haven't fully come to terms with it yet.
- whatshisface 2y ago
  College degrees still make sense for things that involve math (like mechanical engineering or physics) because I have never met a single person who put the effort in to raise themselves to a professional level on their own.
mike-the-mikado 2y ago
I think that 3 or 4 years is too large a chunk of one's life and education to take on an all or nothing basis. If 3 years of college are good, aren't 2 years of college 2/3 as good? Or more appropriate for some people? The current system grades people as failures if they fail to complete the whole course.
foxglacier 2y ago
It might suit some highly motivated people but the pressure of meeting all the deadlines which have heavy costs for missing (like repeat the entire paper next year and pay again) keep many students actually doing it instead of procrastinating forever. So does the pressure to simply get out of bed to attend lectures instead of learning whenever they feel like. It does sound silly but humans are weak and useless at doing things they don't want to do in the short term with nebulous future benefits. This happens with mortgages too. People with a mortgage tend to religiously pay it off as required so they don't lose their house while people without, somehow don't manage to build equivalent wealth even though they could be scrupulously investing their spare money just as much. And once you have a house, it's easier to keep it than to keep a pile of money. Often when people die, almost their only wealth is their house. Where did all the rest of what they earned their entire life go?

LVB 2y ago

For some areas, yes. But for studies that have a meaning lab/shop component, the university setting is quite practice.

OutOfHere 2y ago
That is vocational training. There isn't a strong need for a full-blown college degree for it unless one is also tasked with improving the process.
- LVB 2y ago
  I'm talking about something like electrical or mechanical engineering.

jtmarl1n 2y ago

Strongly disagree. Part of the value of college is new experiences and being exposed to people and things you wouldn't be otherwise. Removing these experiences only reinforces the idea that the only benefit to college and university is to churn out worker drones.

jaco6 2y ago
[dead]
qudat 2y ago
Meh, turn that aspect into smaller “camps” or apprenticeship programs without the insane price tag. People can get new experiences and meet people in much more efficient ways.
OutOfHere 2y ago
I understand but it's not worth the price tag or even close. There ought to be 10x more price efficient ways of getting that experience if not for free altogether.
dworkr 2y ago
Maslow's pyramid is a thing. Once you are financially secure, those other levels of good stuff open up. For most common folk, college is about financial security because that is what they don't have. If you are born into a financially secure family, you cannot understand that and may give really had advice to poorer folks.

hollywood_court 2y ago

I'm not sure if bachelor's degrees should be abolished. But we need to start recognizing that most college degrees aren't required to do most jobs, and it's basically rent-seeking behavior. I've helped interview and hire three additional software engineers for my teams over the past 2.5 years. None of the applicants with a B.S. in SWE could hold a candle to the self-taught applicants. Those are my anecdotes, but we interviewed multiple applicants with B.S SWE degrees from Auburn, the University of Alabama, and the University of Tennessee. None of them were close to being as prepared as the applicants, who were a little older and had no college degrees but decided to pursue SWE independently. I had a very successful career in construction when I was a young man. First, I wore a tool belt, and then I got into commercial construction management. I work for one of the Top 5 builders in the world. I decided to move back to the states and put down some roots. I expected to land a construction management job in Auburn easily. However, none of the companies would even give me a chance to interview because I didn't have a B.S. in Building Science from Auburn. As it turns out, everyone and their mother has a Building Science degree from Auburn. So, I also decided to pursue one until I learned how much the people were earning. They were spending ~$100k on a degree only to graduate and earn far less than I earned while wearing a tool belt. So, I put my tool belt back on and went to work. I pivoted into SWE a few years ago without a degree. However, to get to the executive level, the head of our company suggested that I obtain a degree. So, I completed an SWE degree at WGU. I didn't learn anything while pursuing the degree, but at least I have that piece of paper hanging in my office now. I have many more anecdotes I could share to show why I think most college degrees are rent-seeking behavior, but I guess anecdotes don't account for much at the end of the day.

OutOfHere 2y ago
Your self-disagreement, as manifested in your first two paragraphs, should be eating you alive, but it isn't because you haven't fully come to terms with it yet.
whatshisface 2y ago
College degrees still make sense for things that involve math (like mechanical engineering or physics) because I have never met a single person who put the effort in to raise themselves to a professional level on their own.

mike-the-mikado 2y ago

I think that 3 or 4 years is too large a chunk of one's life and education to take on an all or nothing basis. If 3 years of college are good, aren't 2 years of college 2/3 as good? Or more appropriate for some people? The current system grades people as failures if they fail to complete the whole course.

foxglacier 2y ago

It might suit some highly motivated people but the pressure of meeting all the deadlines which have heavy costs for missing (like repeat the entire paper next year and pay again) keep many students actually doing it instead of procrastinating forever. So does the pressure to simply get out of bed to attend lectures instead of learning whenever they feel like. It does sound silly but humans are weak and useless at doing things they don't want to do in the short term with nebulous future benefits. This happens with mortgages too. People with a mortgage tend to religiously pay it off as required so they don't lose their house while people without, somehow don't manage to build equivalent wealth even though they could be scrupulously investing their spare money just as much. And once you have a house, it's easier to keep it than to keep a pile of money. Often when people die, almost their only wealth is their house. Where did all the rest of what they earned their entire life go?