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"Colonialism studies" is politicized? In what way? Sounds like a history class to me--but please tell me why it isn't.. I'm not familiar. > seems to produce ac

"Colonialism studies" is politicized? In what way? Sounds like a history class to me--but please tell me why it isn't.. I'm not familiar. > seems to produce activists who are just unbelievably cringe and naïve I'd be curious to see some examples.

juniperus 2y ago
The idea that you can have an economically sound career talking about historical colonialism is a bit far-fetched. There are a few authors who probably scrape by a living writing books on this topic, but that's about it (and they don't need a degree to do this). If you get one of the handful of academic jobs where you teach this topic to other students, it is something of a racket, where you are teaching students to get a degree in a field where the only job is teaching other students this topic. There is certainly inherent value in some fields that don't have a direct application, like philosophy, but can still inform other pursuits. As for the politicization of the field of colonialism studies, generally, these sort of topics are viewed through a pseudo-religious lens today, the religion being utopianism, the idea that there can be survival and satisfaction for all. Under the utopianist worldview, practical concerns are ignored and the topic is judged under a lens of morality and dogma. That makes it an unserious field and marred by activism. Very true for many humanities and social graduate degrees. Might as well go to seminary and spend half a decade learning to be a theologian. The outcome is similar, dogmatic and removed from reality, makes it hard to transfer into a real world setting.
- nielsbot 2y ago
  A lot of discuss here--sorry if my thoughts are a bit jumbled, but: > The idea that you can have an economically sound career talking about historical colonialism is a bit far-fetched I don't believe all careers need to have economic soundness as their pursuit. > the idea that there can be survival and satisfaction for all I feel that it's wrong to dispossess people of their lands and resources just because you can. I think that perspective is underrepresented in our society. I think there is usefulness in teaching "the other side" of history. I also believe a wealthy society should invest in jobs that are not "economically sound". > practical concerns are ignored and the topic is judged under a lens of morality and dogma What do you mean "practical concerns"? What other lens is there than morality? I don't believe morality can be dogma, but interested to hear your view. > dogmatic and removed from reality Present reality? No room for moral correctness or the study of it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems the thread of your comment is that everyone should have an "economically sustainable job". Why is that so important?
cyberax 2y ago
> Sounds like a history class to me--but please tell me why it isn't.. History, in general, has always been a somewhat "activist" degree. But it's a huge area of research, and it's not _necessarily_ politically charged. "Colonialism studies" almost always degenerate into "all civilization bad, need to destroy all humans and return to the stone age" nonsense. That's not to say that real research in this area is impossible, this year's Nobel Prize in economics was given for the colonialism research. > I'd be curious to see some examples. Recent Gaza protests in Seattle, for example. The protesters were handing out communist propaganda. Not in any roundabout way, but literal Communist Manifestos. Or another example, Seattle's ex-councilmember campaigned _for_ Trump, to help speed up the "destruction of capitalist oppression" ( https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/a-big-seattle-name-is-in-the-election-battlegrounds-helping-trump/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/a-big-sea... ). I can go on, with more examples, but they are mostly local to the Seattle area. For less political examples, the "just stop using oil" protesters who keep defacing art.
- nielsbot 2y ago
  > "Colonialism studies" almost always degenerate into "all civilization bad, need to destroy all humans and return to the stone age" nonsense. How does studying colonialism lead to that conclusion? "Almost always"? Based on what survey? > For less political examples, the "just stop using oil" protesters who keep defacing art. The essence of protest is grabbing attention, disruption. This means inconveniencing the comfortable. I concede that I'm not sure the anti-fossil fuel protesters defacing famous art are earning sympathy for their cause.
  - cyberax 2y ago
    > How does studying colonialism lead to that conclusion? "Almost always"? Based on what survey? Look at nonsense like this: https://www.dukeupress.edu/pollution-is-colonialism https://www.dukeupress.edu/pollution-is-colonialism Or pretty much anything featuring the word "decolonization". > The essence of protest is grabbing attention, disruption. That's not the point. The point is that shitheads think that "just stopping oil" at the drop of a hat (by 2030) _is_ an option. That governments can just "sign a treaty" and stop all the fossil fuel extraction in less time than it takes to design and build an average HVDC power line. I actually spoke with one of their members on WhatsApp, and they do believe that.

juniperus 2y ago

The idea that you can have an economically sound career talking about historical colonialism is a bit far-fetched. There are a few authors who probably scrape by a living writing books on this topic, but that's about it (and they don't need a degree to do this). If you get one of the handful of academic jobs where you teach this topic to other students, it is something of a racket, where you are teaching students to get a degree in a field where the only job is teaching other students this topic. There is certainly inherent value in some fields that don't have a direct application, like philosophy, but can still inform other pursuits. As for the politicization of the field of colonialism studies, generally, these sort of topics are viewed through a pseudo-religious lens today, the religion being utopianism, the idea that there can be survival and satisfaction for all. Under the utopianist worldview, practical concerns are ignored and the topic is judged under a lens of morality and dogma. That makes it an unserious field and marred by activism. Very true for many humanities and social graduate degrees. Might as well go to seminary and spend half a decade learning to be a theologian. The outcome is similar, dogmatic and removed from reality, makes it hard to transfer into a real world setting.

nielsbot 2y ago
A lot of discuss here--sorry if my thoughts are a bit jumbled, but: > The idea that you can have an economically sound career talking about historical colonialism is a bit far-fetched I don't believe all careers need to have economic soundness as their pursuit. > the idea that there can be survival and satisfaction for all I feel that it's wrong to dispossess people of their lands and resources just because you can. I think that perspective is underrepresented in our society. I think there is usefulness in teaching "the other side" of history. I also believe a wealthy society should invest in jobs that are not "economically sound". > practical concerns are ignored and the topic is judged under a lens of morality and dogma What do you mean "practical concerns"? What other lens is there than morality? I don't believe morality can be dogma, but interested to hear your view. > dogmatic and removed from reality Present reality? No room for moral correctness or the study of it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems the thread of your comment is that everyone should have an "economically sustainable job". Why is that so important?

cyberax 2y ago

> Sounds like a history class to me--but please tell me why it isn't.. History, in general, has always been a somewhat "activist" degree. But it's a huge area of research, and it's not _necessarily_ politically charged. "Colonialism studies" almost always degenerate into "all civilization bad, need to destroy all humans and return to the stone age" nonsense. That's not to say that real research in this area is impossible, this year's Nobel Prize in economics was given for the colonialism research. > I'd be curious to see some examples. Recent Gaza protests in Seattle, for example. The protesters were handing out communist propaganda. Not in any roundabout way, but literal Communist Manifestos. Or another example, Seattle's ex-councilmember campaigned _for_ Trump, to help speed up the "destruction of capitalist oppression" ( https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/a-big-seattle-name-is-in-the-election-battlegrounds-helping-trump/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/a-big-sea... ). I can go on, with more examples, but they are mostly local to the Seattle area. For less political examples, the "just stop using oil" protesters who keep defacing art.

nielsbot 2y ago
> "Colonialism studies" almost always degenerate into "all civilization bad, need to destroy all humans and return to the stone age" nonsense. How does studying colonialism lead to that conclusion? "Almost always"? Based on what survey? > For less political examples, the "just stop using oil" protesters who keep defacing art. The essence of protest is grabbing attention, disruption. This means inconveniencing the comfortable. I concede that I'm not sure the anti-fossil fuel protesters defacing famous art are earning sympathy for their cause.
- cyberax 2y ago
  > How does studying colonialism lead to that conclusion? "Almost always"? Based on what survey? Look at nonsense like this: https://www.dukeupress.edu/pollution-is-colonialism https://www.dukeupress.edu/pollution-is-colonialism Or pretty much anything featuring the word "decolonization". > The essence of protest is grabbing attention, disruption. That's not the point. The point is that shitheads think that "just stopping oil" at the drop of a hat (by 2030) _is_ an option. That governments can just "sign a treaty" and stop all the fossil fuel extraction in less time than it takes to design and build an average HVDC power line. I actually spoke with one of their members on WhatsApp, and they do believe that.