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Looking back, U7 is a deeply flawed game (the combat basically provides zero challenge, the inventory system is horrendous) yet its game world is so deeply imme

by danso 2y ago

Looking back, U7 is a deeply flawed game (the combat basically provides zero challenge, the inventory system is horrendous) yet its game world is so deeply immersive that it's not at all surprising to see this kind of open source labor of love to restore it.

ekianjo 2y ago
It's a deeply flawed game but thats much less flawed than other RPGs. Most of them don't even do a quarter of what Ultima VII achieved on what are now ancient CPUs.
nottorp 2y ago
> the combat basically provides zero challenge Is that a problem? Do all games have to involve some kind of fighting?
- idle_zealot 2y ago
  Of course not every game needs combat. If there is combat though, it should be included thoughtfully and serve the game's intended goals (usually by being some mix of challenging and satisfying, though not always).
- jerf 2y ago
  Ultima traditionally had relatively deep tactical combat, at least for the time. Ultima VII's problem is that it sort of exhibits a desire from a design perspective to have that sort of combat, but in practice it's even less engaging than those mobile games where you select four of your characters from some gacha-based roster and fling them at four other characters, and the fight proceeds without you. At least in those fights you can understand what is going on. Ultima VII's combat is just the characters randomly walking around each other, playing some sword swinging animations, and then some things are dead and some things are not. Not only do you not have much useful input, you don't even have comprehension of what happened. Did you win handily? Did you scrape through? Is there something you could have done to change the outcome? None of these questions are answerable from the game. You can't even call this "realism", you have vastly less comprehension of what happened then people in real life have in real melee combat scenarios, as confusing as real life can be. It would be better off by just removing it except combat is still sort of baked into the conflict in the genre and the basic design of exploring the world. Since the ability to "read" the battles and react in any intelligent way is about nil, the game made up for it by making everything almost trivially easy, as long as you're halfway decently geared. It works against the design of the world. This is the problem. They should either be good and meaningful, or somehow removed, but Ultima VII has just about the worst possible combination of attributes for combat to be meaningful in any way, yet it is still there. At least it's over quickly. (The series kind of flamed out on the combat here. Ultima VIII's combat is also exceedingly bad, albeit in a completely different way. IX's was one of the earliest 3D "open world" games and while it may exceed its predecessors in being at least "semi-credible for the time", that's about as far as it makes it.)
  - nottorp 2y ago
    I get your point. I did play most Ultimas though. I don't remember the combat annoying me. Perhaps because I just wanted to get it done and move on with the story.
zajio1am 2y ago
For me, the combat was confusing, but the inventory system (which considers both weight and bulk) was much better than in most other games (even today), which use fixed number of slots with perhaps stacking of same items. That us horrendous.

by danso 2y ago

ekianjo 2y ago

It's a deeply flawed game but thats much less flawed than other RPGs. Most of them don't even do a quarter of what Ultima VII achieved on what are now ancient CPUs.

nottorp 2y ago

> the combat basically provides zero challenge Is that a problem? Do all games have to involve some kind of fighting?

idle_zealot 2y ago
Of course not every game needs combat. If there is combat though, it should be included thoughtfully and serve the game's intended goals (usually by being some mix of challenging and satisfying, though not always).
jerf 2y ago
Ultima traditionally had relatively deep tactical combat, at least for the time. Ultima VII's problem is that it sort of exhibits a desire from a design perspective to have that sort of combat, but in practice it's even less engaging than those mobile games where you select four of your characters from some gacha-based roster and fling them at four other characters, and the fight proceeds without you. At least in those fights you can understand what is going on. Ultima VII's combat is just the characters randomly walking around each other, playing some sword swinging animations, and then some things are dead and some things are not. Not only do you not have much useful input, you don't even have comprehension of what happened. Did you win handily? Did you scrape through? Is there something you could have done to change the outcome? None of these questions are answerable from the game. You can't even call this "realism", you have vastly less comprehension of what happened then people in real life have in real melee combat scenarios, as confusing as real life can be. It would be better off by just removing it except combat is still sort of baked into the conflict in the genre and the basic design of exploring the world. Since the ability to "read" the battles and react in any intelligent way is about nil, the game made up for it by making everything almost trivially easy, as long as you're halfway decently geared. It works against the design of the world. This is the problem. They should either be good and meaningful, or somehow removed, but Ultima VII has just about the worst possible combination of attributes for combat to be meaningful in any way, yet it is still there. At least it's over quickly. (The series kind of flamed out on the combat here. Ultima VIII's combat is also exceedingly bad, albeit in a completely different way. IX's was one of the earliest 3D "open world" games and while it may exceed its predecessors in being at least "semi-credible for the time", that's about as far as it makes it.)
- nottorp 2y ago
  I get your point. I did play most Ultimas though. I don't remember the combat annoying me. Perhaps because I just wanted to get it done and move on with the story.

zajio1am 2y ago

For me, the combat was confusing, but the inventory system (which considers both weight and bulk) was much better than in most other games (even today), which use fixed number of slots with perhaps stacking of same items. That us horrendous.