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I like this approach to communication, except the the "deadline" part. I'd prefer my reports just let me know if they are working on something which I may want

I like this approach to communication, except the the "deadline" part. I'd prefer my reports just let me know if they are working on something which I may want to veto (because I may have more context as to why it's a waste of time or not a priority). Giving a "deadline" to your manager is strange, and almost like a weird, annoying threat. I also would like to think I would give people on my team enough autonomy to make their own decisions about something as trivial as a github action.

afarviral 2y ago
I really like the idea of seeking a no (e.g. let me know if I shouldn't go ahead) but as soon as I add something like, "I will do this on this date, unless I hear otherwise", is a little aggressive feeling. It might be easy enough to simply mention the time the work will take place, but leave it unspoken that they could decide it's best to not proceed, "I should get it done around this time". Then again, it's been a goal of mine forever to be assertive. Cowing only takes you so far.
- post-it 2y ago
  It's just a matter of phrasing. "Hi, I wanted to give you a heads up that XYZ needs doing, and I'll be doing it on Wednesday. Let me know if that doesn't work."
wavemode 2y ago
Agreed, stating a deadline on something that is still just an idea, is weird and aggressive. Usually, a deadline is used to communicate "I have already decided I'm doing this, and received approval/consensus to do it, so now I'm informing you of the fact that I'm doing it."
- seansmccullough 2y ago
  A lot of times you have to set a “deadline” when interacting with other teams/orgs, or they will just never get back to you.
burnished 2y ago
I feel like a deadline on your own actions can also be a courtesy, in the sense that you are communicating the notice window as well as letting someone catching up on old emails gauge how relevant it now is
zmgsabst 2y ago
If I don’t tell you when I’m doing the work, how will I know if you’ve said no or not? If I think one day is enough time, so proceed, but you take two days to respond, now I’ve done something against your instructions. Adding a date avoids that: “I’ll be migrating the build system on Wednesday (26th); please let me know if you have any concerns.”
- imajoredinecon 2y ago
  For what it’s worth, this seems like the fatal flaw in the OP to me. If you need input on whether something is good to do, it’s very easy for someone to reply “yes” or “sounds good,” so just ask for input. If you don’t need input, just send an FYI instead of the weird asymmetric asking-for-objections-but-not-approval.
  - zmgsabst 2y ago
    As someone else pointed out, this is intention-based communication — in the style of Turn This Ship Around. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16158601-turn-the-ship-around https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16158601-turn-the-ship-a... We’re informing the manager of our intention, but we already decided it was a good idea at the engineering level. We’re not really soliciting input, eg, whether that’s a good idea or not. However, there might be conflicts we’re not aware of, eg, “Wednesday is bad, since there’s a demo that day.” Asking if there are concerns is soliciting that information — but being clear about what you’re asking.
- zeroimpl 2y ago
  I'd tone it down a little via: “I'm planning on migrating the build system on Wednesday (26th); please let me know if you have any concerns.” The original wording makes it sound like it's already been settled, so nobody will bother responding. But by saying planning, you might get some feedback.
wvenable 2y ago
I think the article does a disservice calling it a deadline. I had the same concerns at that point until I read the example and it clicked. It's really just the date you will do the thing, not really a deadline.
- mooreds 2y ago
  Author here. It's a deadline for feedback, which is why I used the word. Other comments have called it an ultimatum. Both of those might be unnecessarily aggressive terms, but I'm not sure what another one-word term for "time something is going to get done unless you object" is.
  - AlexSW 2y ago
    Timeline, maybe.
  - wvenable 2y ago
    It's only a deadline for feedback because after you do it, obviously, feedback can no longer be provided. Timeframe might be less aggressive than deadline.
tdiff 2y ago
Second that. It is actually a threat to a manager that if he does not put aside all his work and spend time to figure out what the suggestion is, an overly enthusiastic employee would make something she thinks is reasonable
latexr 2y ago
Agreed. I would add the “unless I hear differently from you” falls in the same category. You’re already sending an email describing what you’re going to do, of course your boss can object and you’re open to it, that’s exactly the point of informing them of your plans.

afarviral 2y ago

I really like the idea of seeking a no (e.g. let me know if I shouldn't go ahead) but as soon as I add something like, "I will do this on this date, unless I hear otherwise", is a little aggressive feeling. It might be easy enough to simply mention the time the work will take place, but leave it unspoken that they could decide it's best to not proceed, "I should get it done around this time". Then again, it's been a goal of mine forever to be assertive. Cowing only takes you so far.

post-it 2y ago
It's just a matter of phrasing. "Hi, I wanted to give you a heads up that XYZ needs doing, and I'll be doing it on Wednesday. Let me know if that doesn't work."

wavemode 2y ago

Agreed, stating a deadline on something that is still just an idea, is weird and aggressive. Usually, a deadline is used to communicate "I have already decided I'm doing this, and received approval/consensus to do it, so now I'm informing you of the fact that I'm doing it."

seansmccullough 2y ago
A lot of times you have to set a “deadline” when interacting with other teams/orgs, or they will just never get back to you.

burnished 2y ago

I feel like a deadline on your own actions can also be a courtesy, in the sense that you are communicating the notice window as well as letting someone catching up on old emails gauge how relevant it now is

zmgsabst 2y ago

If I don’t tell you when I’m doing the work, how will I know if you’ve said no or not? If I think one day is enough time, so proceed, but you take two days to respond, now I’ve done something against your instructions. Adding a date avoids that: “I’ll be migrating the build system on Wednesday (26th); please let me know if you have any concerns.”

imajoredinecon 2y ago
For what it’s worth, this seems like the fatal flaw in the OP to me. If you need input on whether something is good to do, it’s very easy for someone to reply “yes” or “sounds good,” so just ask for input. If you don’t need input, just send an FYI instead of the weird asymmetric asking-for-objections-but-not-approval.
- zmgsabst 2y ago
  As someone else pointed out, this is intention-based communication — in the style of Turn This Ship Around. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16158601-turn-the-ship-around https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16158601-turn-the-ship-a... We’re informing the manager of our intention, but we already decided it was a good idea at the engineering level. We’re not really soliciting input, eg, whether that’s a good idea or not. However, there might be conflicts we’re not aware of, eg, “Wednesday is bad, since there’s a demo that day.” Asking if there are concerns is soliciting that information — but being clear about what you’re asking.
zeroimpl 2y ago
I'd tone it down a little via: “I'm planning on migrating the build system on Wednesday (26th); please let me know if you have any concerns.” The original wording makes it sound like it's already been settled, so nobody will bother responding. But by saying planning, you might get some feedback.

wvenable 2y ago

I think the article does a disservice calling it a deadline. I had the same concerns at that point until I read the example and it clicked. It's really just the date you will do the thing, not really a deadline.

mooreds 2y ago
Author here. It's a deadline for feedback, which is why I used the word. Other comments have called it an ultimatum. Both of those might be unnecessarily aggressive terms, but I'm not sure what another one-word term for "time something is going to get done unless you object" is.
- AlexSW 2y ago
  Timeline, maybe.
- wvenable 2y ago
  It's only a deadline for feedback because after you do it, obviously, feedback can no longer be provided. Timeframe might be less aggressive than deadline.

tdiff 2y ago

Second that. It is actually a threat to a manager that if he does not put aside all his work and spend time to figure out what the suggestion is, an overly enthusiastic employee would make something she thinks is reasonable

latexr 2y ago

Agreed. I would add the “unless I hear differently from you” falls in the same category. You’re already sending an email describing what you’re going to do, of course your boss can object and you’re open to it, that’s exactly the point of informing them of your plans.