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Ah sorry for not being to the point as I forget just how many systems there are globally - I meant minimum wage payments. The effect would not be immediate and

Ah sorry for not being to the point as I forget just how many systems there are globally - I meant minimum wage payments. The effect would not be immediate and would take years, though a tax break for businesses for each US citizen on their payroll would surely help speed it up. I have known too many US based people who moan about the influx but happy to have jobs done by illegals at a really dirt cheap rate. As as additional note, Australia had this fair wage pay as law for a great number of years, but somewhere along the line people plain forgot. Back in the 70s the country used to have Aussie based workers that travelled the entire country, north to south and back again to follow work as seasonal workers in agriculture. However the process for hiring an employee was a handful and red tape most DIY accounting folks didn't like dealing with so much, meant the option of simplified payment steam to a company providing labour was and still is very attractive, even though some of the procedures has been relaxed. (Also until a decade or two ago, for years the employer would be paying into a black hole fund for worker's compensation, even if their crop was wiped out or for some other reason would not be needing any additional workers.) In the 90s I got to witness all sorts of BS schemes to get non aussie workers into the work force, like 457 visas so companies could fill jobs that they couldn't fill locally. Eventually everyone and their dog cottoned on to the shenanigans and ... for the most part a lot went by the way side. We still have noise here in Aussie land how backpackers save this and that because Aussies are lazy and what not - nope, most here growing up in the heat know working in conditions too hot or some other unsafe instance have long term consequences, might be 5 years down the track and the kidney damage finally reaches a point it needs to be addressed. Backpackers (tourists with a work visa who travel and work their way around a country) are typically long gone back in their home land, so they're ideal for scam labour companies and the odd no moral compass farmer.

westurner 2y ago
Andrew Yang (and Sam Altman) probably have a piece to say about basic income / wage subsidies in context to the robots and sophisticated AI taking our jobs and tiny houses. Migrant labor exploitation? What would our food cost? How many people does it take to mow a sand lawn? I hope that the current hate for immigrants isn't much more than divisive political fearmongering and splitting that will diminish when they regain their humility and self respect due to food prices and having a conscience. Creating jobs on the other side of the border would probably be more cost-effective. IDK, "Terminator: Dark Fate", "The Big Green", "Amistad", "McFarland, USA" H1B competition in tech is fierce here, and the reason we don't get hired in our own country. Indiar and Chinar have more gifted students than we have students. Americans won't work the fields anymore; we'll pay Asia to manufacture robots and learn sustainable farming practices like no-till farming later. The new sustainable aviation fuel subsidy (of the previous administration) requires sustainable farming practices so that we're not subsidizing unrealized losses due soil depletion. It doesn't make sense to pay them to waste the land without consideration. Your success with fighting desertification is inspiring. We're still not sure why the Colorado river is running dry for the southwest where it's always been dry and carelessly farmed and drilled. TIL about bunds and preventing water from flashing off due to impacted soil trashed by years of tilling and overgrazing. I've a few friends who've traveled to Oceania for school and work. There should be an Australian "The Office". Welfare economics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_economics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_economics
- anenefan 2y ago
  I would never consider a fair minimum wage which is regardless of citizen or non citizenship as a subsidy. As for supporting less developed countries -- around 1975 the formation of the Lima agreement[1] came to pass, a United Nations strategy to shift some manufacturing to less developed countries and share the wealth. I suspect that's yet another reason why some US companies expanded into South American countries. As for A.I. bots taking over our simple repetitive jobs or manual jobs like in construction duties, due to complexity and unexpected job functions it's not something that's going to be worth pursing too hard. Construction tasks were the sort of jobs I was referencing that some people liked getting for rock bottom dollar by way of desperate immigrants and though people do greatly benefit from really low rates when its their own money and mostly DIY projects, a bot replacement is a novel idea but ... A.I. General Practice doctor bot will exist long (years) before that, data for medicating and solving health issues has a much much larger data set existing over at least 50 years of information which most is still sort of relevant. As for construction - well obviously one meets plenty of people think it's fairly simple and a few lines in a DIY book has it covered. Yes the minimum wage would mean the nature and scope of some people's personal (back yard) projects would change. Small business would obviously be impacted but a smart govt would have in place something to balance out having to pay higher wages. Over all it's better people can work if they want to. Food prices generally should not have a high labour wage component when it leaves the farm gate - unless it's a back yard hobby situation. If a whooping big farm is crying foul labour minimum wage rates are too high, so high they can't make a profit, 9/10 times they're doing something wrong or ... they got /(are getting) fleeced when they sold / sell their produce to the markets. The act of fleecing a farmer or farm group is IMO, immoral. Actually (given the level of interest by a few people I've met or know) I would think a lot of people would love to work in the fields, so long as good farming practices are observed ie safe and not half killing themselves so by days end they are done for the day, they are paid at decent and liveable wage, (ie not slave labour rates) and there's time for themselves with perhaps hour travel to local affordable further / higher education they can participate in part time if they are inclined to do so. We also hear the same -- in that Aussies won't or don't want to work on a farm because [insert some BS excuse here] and it's fortunate there are backpackers (young tourists) who are prepared ... if the job is straight, pays ok, half decent conditions - there will be no end of willing home borne applicants. As for sustainable aviation fuel subsidy - I would guess for most people it implies a focus on more obvious oil seed crops on otherwise good agricultural land which could be utilised for food or fibre production. But I think the trick is to work out what oil producing crops could exist in marginal country, moreover a tree crop where it's feasible to drip irrigate or under tree root so that the very limited water isn't lost evaporating from the soil surface. As for tackling desertification, sustainability is a new mantra in the farming sector. I don't iirc any significant projects aimed at revegetating any large tracks of arid land I'd call a success. (There are though property owners who have done wonders to rehabilitate flogged country so it becomes more productive whilst ensuing a diverse landscape.) However for fighting desertification, I do recall 90s or so a very good example of the benefits of Permaculture as per Bill Mollison [2] rehabilitating a small knob / small hill of ground somewhere iirc in Africa back into a scene of lush greenery which might have even included some banana trees, whilst the rest of the landscape was bleak and dry with a minimum of grassy vegetation. >There should be an Australian "The Office". Never really got into either versions of The Office however something in the same vein but a little over the top is a workplace based Aussie show -- Swift and Shift Couriers[3] [1] https://www.unido.org/sites/default/files/2014-04/Lima_Declaration_EN_web_0.pdf https://www.unido.org/sites/default/files/2014-04/Lima_Decla... [pdf] [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Mollison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Mollison [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_and_Shift_Couriers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_and_Shift_Couriers

westurner 2y ago

Andrew Yang (and Sam Altman) probably have a piece to say about basic income / wage subsidies in context to the robots and sophisticated AI taking our jobs and tiny houses. Migrant labor exploitation? What would our food cost? How many people does it take to mow a sand lawn? I hope that the current hate for immigrants isn't much more than divisive political fearmongering and splitting that will diminish when they regain their humility and self respect due to food prices and having a conscience. Creating jobs on the other side of the border would probably be more cost-effective. IDK, "Terminator: Dark Fate", "The Big Green", "Amistad", "McFarland, USA" H1B competition in tech is fierce here, and the reason we don't get hired in our own country. Indiar and Chinar have more gifted students than we have students. Americans won't work the fields anymore; we'll pay Asia to manufacture robots and learn sustainable farming practices like no-till farming later. The new sustainable aviation fuel subsidy (of the previous administration) requires sustainable farming practices so that we're not subsidizing unrealized losses due soil depletion. It doesn't make sense to pay them to waste the land without consideration. Your success with fighting desertification is inspiring. We're still not sure why the Colorado river is running dry for the southwest where it's always been dry and carelessly farmed and drilled. TIL about bunds and preventing water from flashing off due to impacted soil trashed by years of tilling and overgrazing. I've a few friends who've traveled to Oceania for school and work. There should be an Australian "The Office". Welfare economics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_economics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_economics

anenefan 2y ago
I would never consider a fair minimum wage which is regardless of citizen or non citizenship as a subsidy. As for supporting less developed countries -- around 1975 the formation of the Lima agreement[1] came to pass, a United Nations strategy to shift some manufacturing to less developed countries and share the wealth. I suspect that's yet another reason why some US companies expanded into South American countries. As for A.I. bots taking over our simple repetitive jobs or manual jobs like in construction duties, due to complexity and unexpected job functions it's not something that's going to be worth pursing too hard. Construction tasks were the sort of jobs I was referencing that some people liked getting for rock bottom dollar by way of desperate immigrants and though people do greatly benefit from really low rates when its their own money and mostly DIY projects, a bot replacement is a novel idea but ... A.I. General Practice doctor bot will exist long (years) before that, data for medicating and solving health issues has a much much larger data set existing over at least 50 years of information which most is still sort of relevant. As for construction - well obviously one meets plenty of people think it's fairly simple and a few lines in a DIY book has it covered. Yes the minimum wage would mean the nature and scope of some people's personal (back yard) projects would change. Small business would obviously be impacted but a smart govt would have in place something to balance out having to pay higher wages. Over all it's better people can work if they want to. Food prices generally should not have a high labour wage component when it leaves the farm gate - unless it's a back yard hobby situation. If a whooping big farm is crying foul labour minimum wage rates are too high, so high they can't make a profit, 9/10 times they're doing something wrong or ... they got /(are getting) fleeced when they sold / sell their produce to the markets. The act of fleecing a farmer or farm group is IMO, immoral. Actually (given the level of interest by a few people I've met or know) I would think a lot of people would love to work in the fields, so long as good farming practices are observed ie safe and not half killing themselves so by days end they are done for the day, they are paid at decent and liveable wage, (ie not slave labour rates) and there's time for themselves with perhaps hour travel to local affordable further / higher education they can participate in part time if they are inclined to do so. We also hear the same -- in that Aussies won't or don't want to work on a farm because [insert some BS excuse here] and it's fortunate there are backpackers (young tourists) who are prepared ... if the job is straight, pays ok, half decent conditions - there will be no end of willing home borne applicants. As for sustainable aviation fuel subsidy - I would guess for most people it implies a focus on more obvious oil seed crops on otherwise good agricultural land which could be utilised for food or fibre production. But I think the trick is to work out what oil producing crops could exist in marginal country, moreover a tree crop where it's feasible to drip irrigate or under tree root so that the very limited water isn't lost evaporating from the soil surface. As for tackling desertification, sustainability is a new mantra in the farming sector. I don't iirc any significant projects aimed at revegetating any large tracks of arid land I'd call a success. (There are though property owners who have done wonders to rehabilitate flogged country so it becomes more productive whilst ensuing a diverse landscape.) However for fighting desertification, I do recall 90s or so a very good example of the benefits of Permaculture as per Bill Mollison [2] rehabilitating a small knob / small hill of ground somewhere iirc in Africa back into a scene of lush greenery which might have even included some banana trees, whilst the rest of the landscape was bleak and dry with a minimum of grassy vegetation. >There should be an Australian "The Office". Never really got into either versions of The Office however something in the same vein but a little over the top is a workplace based Aussie show -- Swift and Shift Couriers[3] [1] https://www.unido.org/sites/default/files/2014-04/Lima_Declaration_EN_web_0.pdf https://www.unido.org/sites/default/files/2014-04/Lima_Decla... [pdf] [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Mollison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Mollison [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_and_Shift_Couriers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_and_Shift_Couriers