5 ms·

According to Wikipedia, Penn has an endowment of over $22 billion. Not enough in the piggy bank to cover?

by kitrose 2y ago

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
[flagged]
- nielsbot 2y ago
  What is an "activist degree"? (Is activism bad?)
  - cyberax 2y ago
    Usually impractical and heavily politicized stuff like "colonialism studies". Activism is not necessarily bad, but the current university environment, for some reason, seems to produce activists who are just unbelievably cringe and naïve.
    - nielsbot 2y ago
      "Colonialism studies" is politicized? In what way? Sounds like a history class to me--but please tell me why it isn't.. I'm not familiar. > seems to produce activists who are just unbelievably cringe and naïve I'd be curious to see some examples.
      - juniperus 2y ago
        The idea that you can have an economically sound career talking about historical colonialism is a bit far-fetched. There are a few authors who probably scrape by a living writing books on this topic, but that's about it (and they don't need a degree to do this). If you get one of the handful of academic jobs where you teach this topic to other students, it is something of a racket, where you are teaching students to get a degree in a field where the only job is teaching other students this topic. There is certainly inherent value in some fields that don't have a direct application, like philosophy, but can still inform other pursuits. As for the politicization of the field of colonialism studies, generally, these sort of topics are viewed through a pseudo-religious lens today, the religion being utopianism, the idea that there can be survival and satisfaction for all. Under the utopianist worldview, practical concerns are ignored and the topic is judged under a lens of morality and dogma. That makes it an unserious field and marred by activism. Very true for many humanities and social graduate degrees. Might as well go to seminary and spend half a decade learning to be a theologian. The outcome is similar, dogmatic and removed from reality, makes it hard to transfer into a real world setting.
        nielsbot 2y ago
        A lot of discuss here--sorry if my thoughts are a bit jumbled, but: > The idea that you can have an economically sound career talking about historical colonialism is a bit far-fetched I don't believe all careers need to have economic soundness as their pursuit. > the idea that there can be survival and satisfaction for all I feel that it's wrong to dispossess people of their lands and resources just because you can. I think that perspective is underrepresented in our society. I think there is usefulness in teaching "the other side" of history. I also believe a wealthy society should invest in jobs that are not "economically sound". > practical concerns are ignored and the topic is judged under a lens of morality and dogma What do you mean "practical concerns"? What other lens is there than morality? I don't believe morality can be dogma, but interested to hear your view. > dogmatic and removed from reality Present reality? No room for moral correctness or the study of it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems the thread of your comment is that everyone should have an "economically sustainable job". Why is that so important?
      - cyberax 2y ago
        > Sounds like a history class to me--but please tell me why it isn't.. History, in general, has always been a somewhat "activist" degree. But it's a huge area of research, and it's not _necessarily_ politically charged. "Colonialism studies" almost always degenerate into "all civilization bad, need to destroy all humans and return to the stone age" nonsense. That's not to say that real research in this area is impossible, this year's Nobel Prize in economics was given for the colonialism research. > I'd be curious to see some examples. Recent Gaza protests in Seattle, for example. The protesters were handing out communist propaganda. Not in any roundabout way, but literal Communist Manifestos. Or another example, Seattle's ex-councilmember campaigned _for_ Trump, to help speed up the "destruction of capitalist oppression" ( https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/a-big-seattle-name-is-in-the-election-battlegrounds-helping-trump/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/a-big-sea... ). I can go on, with more examples, but they are mostly local to the Seattle area. For less political examples, the "just stop using oil" protesters who keep defacing art.
        nielsbot 2y ago
        > "Colonialism studies" almost always degenerate into "all civilization bad, need to destroy all humans and return to the stone age" nonsense. How does studying colonialism lead to that conclusion? "Almost always"? Based on what survey? > For less political examples, the "just stop using oil" protesters who keep defacing art. The essence of protest is grabbing attention, disruption. This means inconveniencing the comfortable. I concede that I'm not sure the anti-fossil fuel protesters defacing famous art are earning sympathy for their cause.
        cyberax 2y ago
        > How does studying colonialism lead to that conclusion? "Almost always"? Based on what survey? Look at nonsense like this: https://www.dukeupress.edu/pollution-is-colonialism https://www.dukeupress.edu/pollution-is-colonialism Or pretty much anything featuring the word "decolonization". > The essence of protest is grabbing attention, disruption. That's not the point. The point is that shitheads think that "just stopping oil" at the drop of a hat (by 2030) _is_ an option. That governments can just "sign a treaty" and stop all the fossil fuel extraction in less time than it takes to design and build an average HVDC power line. I actually spoke with one of their members on WhatsApp, and they do believe that.
- pclmulqdq 2y ago
  The administrators, athletic coaches, and non-productive tenured professors all cost a lot, and their hands were in the pie before these students' were. By the way, the students in question are for the "activist degrees" you mentioned - they seem to all be in the humanities.
- apical_dendrite 2y ago
  Penn's budget is $4.7 billion (just the university, not including the hospitals). Even with a $22 billion endowment, they can only fund a fraction of that off of investment income. And what are you even talking about "coming back to the taxpayers"? This isn't like a sports team holding a city hostage to get a new stadium. They apply for competitive grants to do particular research projects, then they do those projects. They aren't asking for a handout, they are being paid to provide a much-needed service (health research).
- kelnos 2y ago
  Penn has a $22B endowment, and pulls around 5% out of that annually. That seems to be a reasonably safe number that will give them a good chance of at worst keeping the endowment's size constant. Sure, they can take out more every year (they'd have to take out more than 4x that to match Penn's current budget), but then their endowment would reduce in value every year and eventually run out. That would not be a good outcome.
osnium123 2y ago
Endowments can be very restrictive and thus it’s hard to shuffle money around.
- bitlax 2y ago
  Oh I should try that one.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- nielsbot 2y ago
  What are they for then?
  - saulrh 2y ago
    Chronic traumatic encephalopathy and tax deductions, as far as I can tell.
    - disce-pati 2y ago
      this comment is funny and sad all at once
  - tomohelix 2y ago
    It is a trust fund basically. From what I uderstand, the principal is nearly impossible to use/withdraw and you can only use the interest/returns generated from investing the principle. Even that portion is also restricted. The purpose must be strictly academic and some part must be paid to the university, some must be reinvested, and then the final pieces can be used at the professor's discretion according to the rules set when the endowment is established. So generally, you are looking at 1-2% of the total amount that can be spent annually. Still a lot, but for research, tens of millions would still not be enough for something like Penn.
  - chatmasta 2y ago
    Endowments are investment funds that ideally generate sufficient returns to cover yearly operational expenses while also growing the principal.
binarycrusader 2y ago
As the other poster mentioned, endowments / donations often come with conditions attached that significantly restricts how money from them can be used.
sethev 2y ago
Penn's endowment distributed $1.1 billion last year. Endowments like this are managed to last a long time - indefinitely, even. Penn itself is older than the United States - they're not going to start blowing through their endowment because of political trends over the last couple months (or next 4 years), even if they legally could.
- techright75 2y ago
  [dead]
tzs 2y ago
The whole point of an endowment is to support whatever it was created to support in perpetuity. They do that by investing the endowment and using most of the income from those investments to support the endowment's mission, and a small part to grow the endowment over time. Penn is spending around $1 billion/year from their endowment, which is a fairly reasonably amount for an endowment of $22 billion.

According to Wikipedia, Penn has an endowment of over $22 billion. Not enough in the piggy bank to cover?

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

[flagged]

nielsbot 2y ago
What is an "activist degree"? (Is activism bad?)
- cyberax 2y ago
  Usually impractical and heavily politicized stuff like "colonialism studies". Activism is not necessarily bad, but the current university environment, for some reason, seems to produce activists who are just unbelievably cringe and naïve.
  - nielsbot 2y ago
    "Colonialism studies" is politicized? In what way? Sounds like a history class to me--but please tell me why it isn't.. I'm not familiar. > seems to produce activists who are just unbelievably cringe and naïve I'd be curious to see some examples.
    - juniperus 2y ago
      The idea that you can have an economically sound career talking about historical colonialism is a bit far-fetched. There are a few authors who probably scrape by a living writing books on this topic, but that's about it (and they don't need a degree to do this). If you get one of the handful of academic jobs where you teach this topic to other students, it is something of a racket, where you are teaching students to get a degree in a field where the only job is teaching other students this topic. There is certainly inherent value in some fields that don't have a direct application, like philosophy, but can still inform other pursuits. As for the politicization of the field of colonialism studies, generally, these sort of topics are viewed through a pseudo-religious lens today, the religion being utopianism, the idea that there can be survival and satisfaction for all. Under the utopianist worldview, practical concerns are ignored and the topic is judged under a lens of morality and dogma. That makes it an unserious field and marred by activism. Very true for many humanities and social graduate degrees. Might as well go to seminary and spend half a decade learning to be a theologian. The outcome is similar, dogmatic and removed from reality, makes it hard to transfer into a real world setting.
      - nielsbot 2y ago
        A lot of discuss here--sorry if my thoughts are a bit jumbled, but: > The idea that you can have an economically sound career talking about historical colonialism is a bit far-fetched I don't believe all careers need to have economic soundness as their pursuit. > the idea that there can be survival and satisfaction for all I feel that it's wrong to dispossess people of their lands and resources just because you can. I think that perspective is underrepresented in our society. I think there is usefulness in teaching "the other side" of history. I also believe a wealthy society should invest in jobs that are not "economically sound". > practical concerns are ignored and the topic is judged under a lens of morality and dogma What do you mean "practical concerns"? What other lens is there than morality? I don't believe morality can be dogma, but interested to hear your view. > dogmatic and removed from reality Present reality? No room for moral correctness or the study of it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems the thread of your comment is that everyone should have an "economically sustainable job". Why is that so important?
    - cyberax 2y ago
      > Sounds like a history class to me--but please tell me why it isn't.. History, in general, has always been a somewhat "activist" degree. But it's a huge area of research, and it's not _necessarily_ politically charged. "Colonialism studies" almost always degenerate into "all civilization bad, need to destroy all humans and return to the stone age" nonsense. That's not to say that real research in this area is impossible, this year's Nobel Prize in economics was given for the colonialism research. > I'd be curious to see some examples. Recent Gaza protests in Seattle, for example. The protesters were handing out communist propaganda. Not in any roundabout way, but literal Communist Manifestos. Or another example, Seattle's ex-councilmember campaigned _for_ Trump, to help speed up the "destruction of capitalist oppression" ( https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/a-big-seattle-name-is-in-the-election-battlegrounds-helping-trump/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/a-big-sea... ). I can go on, with more examples, but they are mostly local to the Seattle area. For less political examples, the "just stop using oil" protesters who keep defacing art.
      - nielsbot 2y ago
        > "Colonialism studies" almost always degenerate into "all civilization bad, need to destroy all humans and return to the stone age" nonsense. How does studying colonialism lead to that conclusion? "Almost always"? Based on what survey? > For less political examples, the "just stop using oil" protesters who keep defacing art. The essence of protest is grabbing attention, disruption. This means inconveniencing the comfortable. I concede that I'm not sure the anti-fossil fuel protesters defacing famous art are earning sympathy for their cause.
        cyberax 2y ago
        > How does studying colonialism lead to that conclusion? "Almost always"? Based on what survey? Look at nonsense like this: https://www.dukeupress.edu/pollution-is-colonialism https://www.dukeupress.edu/pollution-is-colonialism Or pretty much anything featuring the word "decolonization". > The essence of protest is grabbing attention, disruption. That's not the point. The point is that shitheads think that "just stopping oil" at the drop of a hat (by 2030) _is_ an option. That governments can just "sign a treaty" and stop all the fossil fuel extraction in less time than it takes to design and build an average HVDC power line. I actually spoke with one of their members on WhatsApp, and they do believe that.
pclmulqdq 2y ago
The administrators, athletic coaches, and non-productive tenured professors all cost a lot, and their hands were in the pie before these students' were. By the way, the students in question are for the "activist degrees" you mentioned - they seem to all be in the humanities.
apical_dendrite 2y ago
Penn's budget is $4.7 billion (just the university, not including the hospitals). Even with a $22 billion endowment, they can only fund a fraction of that off of investment income. And what are you even talking about "coming back to the taxpayers"? This isn't like a sports team holding a city hostage to get a new stadium. They apply for competitive grants to do particular research projects, then they do those projects. They aren't asking for a handout, they are being paid to provide a much-needed service (health research).
kelnos 2y ago
Penn has a $22B endowment, and pulls around 5% out of that annually. That seems to be a reasonably safe number that will give them a good chance of at worst keeping the endowment's size constant. Sure, they can take out more every year (they'd have to take out more than 4x that to match Penn's current budget), but then their endowment would reduce in value every year and eventually run out. That would not be a good outcome.

osnium123 2y ago

Endowments can be very restrictive and thus it’s hard to shuffle money around.

bitlax 2y ago
Oh I should try that one.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
nielsbot 2y ago
What are they for then?
- saulrh 2y ago
  Chronic traumatic encephalopathy and tax deductions, as far as I can tell.
  - disce-pati 2y ago
    this comment is funny and sad all at once
- tomohelix 2y ago
  It is a trust fund basically. From what I uderstand, the principal is nearly impossible to use/withdraw and you can only use the interest/returns generated from investing the principle. Even that portion is also restricted. The purpose must be strictly academic and some part must be paid to the university, some must be reinvested, and then the final pieces can be used at the professor's discretion according to the rules set when the endowment is established. So generally, you are looking at 1-2% of the total amount that can be spent annually. Still a lot, but for research, tens of millions would still not be enough for something like Penn.
- chatmasta 2y ago
  Endowments are investment funds that ideally generate sufficient returns to cover yearly operational expenses while also growing the principal.

binarycrusader 2y ago

As the other poster mentioned, endowments / donations often come with conditions attached that significantly restricts how money from them can be used.

sethev 2y ago

Penn's endowment distributed $1.1 billion last year. Endowments like this are managed to last a long time - indefinitely, even. Penn itself is older than the United States - they're not going to start blowing through their endowment because of political trends over the last couple months (or next 4 years), even if they legally could.

techright75 2y ago
[dead]

tzs 2y ago

The whole point of an endowment is to support whatever it was created to support in perpetuity. They do that by investing the endowment and using most of the income from those investments to support the endowment's mission, and a small part to grow the endowment over time. Penn is spending around $1 billion/year from their endowment, which is a fairly reasonably amount for an endowment of $22 billion.