5 ms·

This is obviously not true. You don't need a label to say "Close" next to the "X" on your window. Or "Play" next to a right-facing triangle in your media playe

This is obviously not true. You don't need a label to say "Close" next to the "X" on your window. Or "Play" next to a right-facing triangle in your media player. Or the word "Search" next to a text box with a magnifying glass in it. We have certain "pictograms" that are just as widely understood as letters themselves. There is a spectrum from widely-understood symbols that don't need labels, to totally ambiguous/confusing/custom symbols that are helped greatly by labels. That said, I agree with the article that right now, a lot of apps could benefit from more labels rather than less.

cyberax 2y ago
> Or "Play" next to a right-facing triangle in your media player. That's a good example. I love text buttons because they are _larger_. > Or the word "Search" next to a text box with a magnifying glass in it. And here I _definitely_ disagree. I hate the search interfaces that are hidden behind a small icon somewhere.
- echoangle 2y ago
  If it’s your personal opinion and other people disagree, it’s not strictly superior though.
- eviks 2y ago
  What are you disagreeing with if the "hidden behind small" is the assumption you've made? Nothing about icons demands hiding anything
danielmarkbruce 2y ago
Try to keep going though. Close. Play. Search. Pause. Stop. Fast forward. I'm guessing you can name a few more, and you might get a group of people to agree about 15 are super obvious and generally accepted. It's a tiny number.
- mrandish 2y ago
  I agree. Maybe I'd add the three horizontal line 'hamburger' for menu, folder, plus sign for 'create new" and directional arrows for back/forward. Maybe around a dozen all in but that's about it. Anything else should have words. Instead, I find myself trying to puzzle out what the hell some cryptic pictogram means, very frustrating. I also have really come to despise this trend of not visually signifying that an icon is a pressable button.
  - petepete 2y ago
    > the three horizontal line 'hamburger' for menu On modern Android menus are (more) often I under a button with 3 dots. Occasionally horizontal, usually vertical.
  - Izkata 2y ago
    > Maybe I'd add the three horizontal line 'hamburger' for menu Fun fact, the original icon for this was more like: /-----\ | --- | | --- | Because it visually represented a menu popping up from the bottom of the screen where the button was on Android phones. Back in this era and earlier, the three horizontal lines represented grips that indicated you could click+drag an element on a webpage.
    - layer8 2y ago
      I wasn’t originally a fan of the hamburger menu icon (it’s not self-explanatory, you have to know what it means), but there was already precedence in Windows 1.0 for the so-called system menu for each application: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4e/Windows1.0.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4e/Windows1.0.pn... Similarly in some DOS TUIs: https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/a/23921 https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/a/23921
      - mrandish 2y ago
        > I wasn’t originally a fan of the hamburger menu icon (it’s not self-explanatory I definitely agree. I just think that it's just been so common in GUIs for long enough to be one of the few that's probably safe to just assume will be understood. Sort of like the two vertical bars for 'pause' on a media player.
tsm 2y ago
A magnifying glass on its own could mean: 1. Search (across the application) 2. Find on page 3. Adjust zoom
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
hnlmorg 2y ago
> You don't need a label to say "Close" next to the "X" on your window A lot of windowing systems will show a tool tip saying “Close” if you hover over that X. Similarly, any menu items for Close (eg right clicking on the task bar) will have both text and an icon. > Or "Play" next to a right-facing triangle in your media player. It’s actually pretty common on hardware devices to have text accompanying those icons. And particularly on older devices when those icons were less ingrained into everyone’s memory. For example: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images2500x2500/coby_cvr_22_portable_cassette_player_1181005.jpg https://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images2500x2500/coby_cvr... > Or the word "Search" next to a text box with a magnifying glass in it And you’d be amazed at the number of nontechnical people who struggle with that. This is why websites designed for people of varying technical abilities, for example holiday booking sites, have text inside the search box describing what it’s used for. For example in this picture of EBay, there is text that says “Search for anything” https://www.lifewire.com/thmb/DwZPyw8OFhQje9EAgEVOtBpUYVM=/1370x899/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/eBay-5acb902a18ba0100375b9808.jpg https://www.lifewire.com/thmb/DwZPyw8OFhQje9EAgEVOtBpUYVM=/1... > There is a spectrum from widely-understood symbols that don't need labels Widely understood by who? People writing the software? Or people actually using the software? ;) Software engineers sometimes forget that most people don’t use computers nor websites for fun and thus don’t want to learn what a bunch of pictograms mean. Frankly, I don’t want to memorise icons either and I do use computers for fun. So there has better be some text labels available for when I’m old, eyesight going, and less comfortable with technology than I currently am.

cyberax 2y ago

> Or "Play" next to a right-facing triangle in your media player. That's a good example. I love text buttons because they are _larger_. > Or the word "Search" next to a text box with a magnifying glass in it. And here I _definitely_ disagree. I hate the search interfaces that are hidden behind a small icon somewhere.

echoangle 2y ago
If it’s your personal opinion and other people disagree, it’s not strictly superior though.
eviks 2y ago
What are you disagreeing with if the "hidden behind small" is the assumption you've made? Nothing about icons demands hiding anything

danielmarkbruce 2y ago

Try to keep going though. Close. Play. Search. Pause. Stop. Fast forward. I'm guessing you can name a few more, and you might get a group of people to agree about 15 are super obvious and generally accepted. It's a tiny number.

mrandish 2y ago
I agree. Maybe I'd add the three horizontal line 'hamburger' for menu, folder, plus sign for 'create new" and directional arrows for back/forward. Maybe around a dozen all in but that's about it. Anything else should have words. Instead, I find myself trying to puzzle out what the hell some cryptic pictogram means, very frustrating. I also have really come to despise this trend of not visually signifying that an icon is a pressable button.
- petepete 2y ago
  > the three horizontal line 'hamburger' for menu On modern Android menus are (more) often I under a button with 3 dots. Occasionally horizontal, usually vertical.
- Izkata 2y ago
  > Maybe I'd add the three horizontal line 'hamburger' for menu Fun fact, the original icon for this was more like: /-----\ | --- | | --- | Because it visually represented a menu popping up from the bottom of the screen where the button was on Android phones. Back in this era and earlier, the three horizontal lines represented grips that indicated you could click+drag an element on a webpage.
  - layer8 2y ago
    I wasn’t originally a fan of the hamburger menu icon (it’s not self-explanatory, you have to know what it means), but there was already precedence in Windows 1.0 for the so-called system menu for each application: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4e/Windows1.0.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4e/Windows1.0.pn... Similarly in some DOS TUIs: https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/a/23921 https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/a/23921
    - mrandish 2y ago
      > I wasn’t originally a fan of the hamburger menu icon (it’s not self-explanatory I definitely agree. I just think that it's just been so common in GUIs for long enough to be one of the few that's probably safe to just assume will be understood. Sort of like the two vertical bars for 'pause' on a media player.

tsm 2y ago

A magnifying glass on its own could mean: 1. Search (across the application) 2. Find on page 3. Adjust zoom

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

hnlmorg 2y ago

> You don't need a label to say "Close" next to the "X" on your window A lot of windowing systems will show a tool tip saying “Close” if you hover over that X. Similarly, any menu items for Close (eg right clicking on the task bar) will have both text and an icon. > Or "Play" next to a right-facing triangle in your media player. It’s actually pretty common on hardware devices to have text accompanying those icons. And particularly on older devices when those icons were less ingrained into everyone’s memory. For example: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images2500x2500/coby_cvr_22_portable_cassette_player_1181005.jpg https://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images2500x2500/coby_cvr... > Or the word "Search" next to a text box with a magnifying glass in it And you’d be amazed at the number of nontechnical people who struggle with that. This is why websites designed for people of varying technical abilities, for example holiday booking sites, have text inside the search box describing what it’s used for. For example in this picture of EBay, there is text that says “Search for anything” https://www.lifewire.com/thmb/DwZPyw8OFhQje9EAgEVOtBpUYVM=/1370x899/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/eBay-5acb902a18ba0100375b9808.jpg https://www.lifewire.com/thmb/DwZPyw8OFhQje9EAgEVOtBpUYVM=/1... > There is a spectrum from widely-understood symbols that don't need labels Widely understood by who? People writing the software? Or people actually using the software? ;) Software engineers sometimes forget that most people don’t use computers nor websites for fun and thus don’t want to learn what a bunch of pictograms mean. Frankly, I don’t want to memorise icons either and I do use computers for fun. So there has better be some text labels available for when I’m old, eyesight going, and less comfortable with technology than I currently am.