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The social security administration estimates ~$60b a year in fraud on ~$400b budget! [1] [2]. People can have a rational discussion as to where and how fraud an

The social security administration estimates ~$60b a year in fraud on ~$400b budget! [1] [2]. People can have a rational discussion as to where and how fraud and abuse are rooted out, but I have trouble understanding how people don’t think it’s an issue? [1] https://blog.ssa.gov/medicare-fraud-prevention-week/ https://blog.ssa.gov/medicare-fraud-prevention-week/ [2] https://www.usaspending.gov/explorer/budget_function https://www.usaspending.gov/explorer/budget_function

pstuart 2y ago
It is an issue and should be addressed. But it should be fixed, not burnt to the ground.
- unclebucknasty 2y ago
  Indeed. In fact, one couldn't be blamed for thinking that perhaps all of this is about something else entirely.
  - pstuart 2y ago
    > In fact, one couldn't be blamed for thinking that perhaps all of this is about something else entirely. Indeed. They've been quite explicit in their goals.
sxyuan 2y ago
See my third point. :) Article from 2022: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/08/upshot/medicare-advantage-fraud-allegations.html?unlocked_article_code=1.y04.7LaX.mNhHcjdS82ok&smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/08/upshot/medicare-advantage... In short, yes there's fraud, yes it's a problem, and the biggest offenders are probably insurance companies. This shouldn't surprise anyone who has dealt with the US health insurance scam, er, I mean system. P.S. To clarify for others who may not bother to click into the links, the parent post mentions the social security administration but the numbers and sources are specifically referring to Medicare, which is what I'm responding to.
heartbreak 2y ago
You linked to a blog post about Medicare fraud, not Social Security fraud.
- hnmullany 2y ago
  That's because the original responder's data was about medicare fraud although the estimate was provided by the Social Security Administration
  - dmoy 2y ago
    But they explicitly said $400B which is not medicare's budget, but rather social security's budget
taeric 2y ago
Medicare would not include SSN payments, though? With a quick search showing Medicare will have a trillion dollar budget. Feels like you are picking incompatible numbers to exaggerate a point. Fraud is also tough, as it is an optimization problem. You want the amount of fraud to be less than what it would cost to fight it more. Especially since a lot of mistakes are labeled as a type of fraud.
danso 2y ago
The Medicare budget in 2023 was $830 billion [0]. Where are you getting $400B from? [0] https://www.kff.org/medicare/issue-brief/what-to-know-about-medicare-spending-and-financing/ https://www.kff.org/medicare/issue-brief/what-to-know-about-...
ipython 2y ago
The problem is that the real perpetrators of the fraud are just trying to redirect the blame to regular citizens. The biggest source of fraud is the insurance and hospital industry itself. See the example of Rick Scott: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Scott https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Scott, yes, that Rick Scott- current Senator from Florida. > Scott was pressured to resign as chief executive of Columbia/HCA in 1997. During his tenure as chief executive, the company defrauded Medicare, Medicaid, and other federal programs. The U.S. Department of Justice won 14 felony convictions against the company, which was fined $1.7 billion in what was at the time the largest healthcare fraud settlement in U.S. history.
- ks2048 2y ago
  THIS. I had to search this thread for Rick Scott. The sources of real fraud are promoted by Trump and Musk. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1855702328571253103 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1855702328571253103

pstuart 2y ago

It is an issue and should be addressed. But it should be fixed, not burnt to the ground.

unclebucknasty 2y ago
Indeed. In fact, one couldn't be blamed for thinking that perhaps all of this is about something else entirely.
- pstuart 2y ago
  > In fact, one couldn't be blamed for thinking that perhaps all of this is about something else entirely. Indeed. They've been quite explicit in their goals.

sxyuan 2y ago

See my third point. :) Article from 2022: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/08/upshot/medicare-advantage-fraud-allegations.html?unlocked_article_code=1.y04.7LaX.mNhHcjdS82ok&smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/08/upshot/medicare-advantage... In short, yes there's fraud, yes it's a problem, and the biggest offenders are probably insurance companies. This shouldn't surprise anyone who has dealt with the US health insurance scam, er, I mean system. P.S. To clarify for others who may not bother to click into the links, the parent post mentions the social security administration but the numbers and sources are specifically referring to Medicare, which is what I'm responding to.

heartbreak 2y ago

You linked to a blog post about Medicare fraud, not Social Security fraud.

hnmullany 2y ago
That's because the original responder's data was about medicare fraud although the estimate was provided by the Social Security Administration
- dmoy 2y ago
  But they explicitly said $400B which is not medicare's budget, but rather social security's budget

taeric 2y ago

Medicare would not include SSN payments, though? With a quick search showing Medicare will have a trillion dollar budget. Feels like you are picking incompatible numbers to exaggerate a point. Fraud is also tough, as it is an optimization problem. You want the amount of fraud to be less than what it would cost to fight it more. Especially since a lot of mistakes are labeled as a type of fraud.

danso 2y ago

The Medicare budget in 2023 was $830 billion [0]. Where are you getting $400B from? [0] https://www.kff.org/medicare/issue-brief/what-to-know-about-medicare-spending-and-financing/ https://www.kff.org/medicare/issue-brief/what-to-know-about-...

ipython 2y ago

The problem is that the real perpetrators of the fraud are just trying to redirect the blame to regular citizens. The biggest source of fraud is the insurance and hospital industry itself. See the example of Rick Scott: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Scott https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Scott, yes, that Rick Scott- current Senator from Florida. > Scott was pressured to resign as chief executive of Columbia/HCA in 1997. During his tenure as chief executive, the company defrauded Medicare, Medicaid, and other federal programs. The U.S. Department of Justice won 14 felony convictions against the company, which was fined $1.7 billion in what was at the time the largest healthcare fraud settlement in U.S. history.

ks2048 2y ago
THIS. I had to search this thread for Rick Scott. The sources of real fraud are promoted by Trump and Musk. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1855702328571253103 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1855702328571253103