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Reversibility is a trade-off. It's great if you are on the sending end of a transaction. It can be a nightmare on the receiving end. Irreversibility is the othe

Reversibility is a trade-off. It's great if you are on the sending end of a transaction. It can be a nightmare on the receiving end. Irreversibility is the other way around. And both approaches have different costs and assumptions.

acdha 2y ago
I think it’s less about reversibility itself and more the larger system within which it works. Banking works because the companies agree to follow rules so there’s a social context where if I make a mistake you will help fix it because the odds are fair that you will make a mistake at some point, too. In contrast, cryptocurrency is a political movement so the ideological “trust less” purity test matters more than whether the system is actually used. There is no technical reason why a system couldn’t have something like a settlement period to allow fraud reversal.
- fc417fc802 2y ago
  A settlement period wouldn't even run against the ideology, only the convenience factor (and implementation complexity, and perhaps transaction fees). More generally, I think a number of the issues with crypto are rooted in things happening immediately.
  - acdha 2y ago
    The ideology I was referring to was more of the trust-less design and “be your own bank” philosophy: many of these problems become easier if you have a third party who can do things like reverse transactions, but then you’re not getting rid of banks and are acknowledging that governments have power over the system. They do anyway, but there’s been a lot of desire to say otherwise.
    - fc417fc802 2y ago
      An algorithmically enforced settlement period where the final result of the entire transaction is visible on the chain but reversible by either party doesn't seem like it would run against that ideology.
      - acdha 2y ago
        No, but it’s a lot more work and it undercuts the marketing claims about being faster. If the industry grows up, I’d expect to see things like that happen.
        fc417fc802 2y ago
        Opt-in wouldn't affect speed. If mandatory, make it log10( thousands ) hours. I'm sure you can afford to wait 4 hours for a million dollar transfer to clear. Bybit would have had 7 hours to realize and revert the mistake in that case.
paulpauper 2y ago
bank error in your favor

acdha 2y ago

I think it’s less about reversibility itself and more the larger system within which it works. Banking works because the companies agree to follow rules so there’s a social context where if I make a mistake you will help fix it because the odds are fair that you will make a mistake at some point, too. In contrast, cryptocurrency is a political movement so the ideological “trust less” purity test matters more than whether the system is actually used. There is no technical reason why a system couldn’t have something like a settlement period to allow fraud reversal.

fc417fc802 2y ago
A settlement period wouldn't even run against the ideology, only the convenience factor (and implementation complexity, and perhaps transaction fees). More generally, I think a number of the issues with crypto are rooted in things happening immediately.
- acdha 2y ago
  The ideology I was referring to was more of the trust-less design and “be your own bank” philosophy: many of these problems become easier if you have a third party who can do things like reverse transactions, but then you’re not getting rid of banks and are acknowledging that governments have power over the system. They do anyway, but there’s been a lot of desire to say otherwise.
  - fc417fc802 2y ago
    An algorithmically enforced settlement period where the final result of the entire transaction is visible on the chain but reversible by either party doesn't seem like it would run against that ideology.
    - acdha 2y ago
      No, but it’s a lot more work and it undercuts the marketing claims about being faster. If the industry grows up, I’d expect to see things like that happen.
      - fc417fc802 2y ago
        Opt-in wouldn't affect speed. If mandatory, make it log10( thousands ) hours. I'm sure you can afford to wait 4 hours for a million dollar transfer to clear. Bybit would have had 7 hours to realize and revert the mistake in that case.

paulpauper 2y ago

bank error in your favor