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> That was some very purposeful misreading Sure, but I made sure to be VERY obvious about it, both for the first point and my last point. I find people in gen

> That was some very purposeful misreading Sure, but I made sure to be VERY obvious about it, both for the first point and my last point. I find people in general to be quite smart, I doubt anyone was genuinely convinced I didn't know you were referring to the US President's children. > while shifting focus away from the topic. I hope not. There's even quite an important point that gets lost when reading it out of context: > blackpaint Ukraine Absolutely not. Whom I'm greatly displeased by are the previous US administration, the European leaders and Zelensky. Trump just going in and immediately making significant progress during the negotiations proves, that any of them could have stopped this slaughter whenever they wanted. There was always the question whether Russia's constant pleas for negotiations both prior and during the war were nothing but macabre PR. And yet the moment a genuine chance presented itself, they agreed to it immediately. Compared to our countries' leaders our own insight into politics is nothing but a joke. And even if they're unsure, they can just pick up the phone and just try. Yet none of them did. These demons happily sacrificed the lifes of millions of people on the altar of their virtue. Ukraine could have had so much. They were offered back all of theit eastern territories and even negotiations regarding the future of Crimea (although those would have been likely derailed) in exchange for keeping neutrality, downsizing their armed forces to 250k people and not allowing any permanent foreign military bases. Russia tried to sneak in veto rights on foreign military exercises on Ukrainian territory, but I doubt there was no way to negotiate that down. Now, years later, all of that is gone. The country is destroyed, everywhere just death, death and more death and Russia short-circuited and pulled the probably worst geopolitical decision of the 21st century by annexing Ukraine's eastern territories. And all of these leaders knew very well how this war would progress. It is happening right next to the Russian heartland, where 80% of its population lives. They knew that Russia cannot back down without negotiating an orderly procedure first, even if they suddenly gave up on all their goals and wanted to. And yet here we are, accusing the one guy who actually tries to put an end to this senseless killing, of only seeing the world in terms of a handful of peers and lacking any compassion. . I'm only aware of Trump Jr. mocking Zelensky, not anyone else, but I've already asked below if I'm mistaken about that. But it doesn't matter. The President's children do not reflect upon the President. And actions speak louder than words. What matters is saving people's lifes. These are a lot of words for the same concept I've pushed above much more strongly, IMO. > How is the weather in St. Petersburg? 7m of snow, no end in sight and a polar bear drank my vodka supply.

somerandomqaguy 2y ago
You do realize of course that the Russians had already signed the Budapest Memorandum in which the Russian Federation would not use military or economic force against Ukraine except in self defence? Or Russia's insistence that the Little Green Men in Crimea were not Russians forces, in spite of the fact that somehow these militiamen had the cutting edge of issued Russian Army equipment. And that the invasion of Ukraine was justified in removing Nazis. As if somehow the single Azov Brigade was somehow actually in control of Ukraine. This whole argument that Ukraine and the EU could stop this slaughter is inane. What exactly would make you think think Russia's promises about a peace agreement are worth any more then the agreement they've already willingly broken? What makes you think they're telling the truth this time around when they have been disinclined to do so thus far?
- DeepSeaTortoise 2y ago
  > You do realize of course that the Russians had already signed the Budapest Memorandum in which the Russian Federation would not use military or economic force against Ukraine except in self defence? Not only military, but also economic and political coercion. In hindsight it was a huge mistake when the US established it as not binding in order to sanction Belarus in 2013. > Or Russia's insistence that the Little Green Men in Crimea were not Russians forces I'm not sure on this, but it not unlikely Russia could not officially act until the "Republic of Crimea" requested it. That's why local militias from overseas were decided by themselves to organize an "election" about whether the "Republic of Crimea" should declare independence or on the other hand if the "Republic of Crimea" should declare independence. And afterwards these militias finally got to join the Russian forces, for which they all had completed the necessary paperwork years ago. > And that the invasion of Ukraine was justified in removing Nazis. This completely breaks my mind as well. Sure, Ukraine has a very ... odd ... relationship with their Nazi past, but Putin was acting as if the Nazis from the dark side of the moon had descended upon Ukraine. And then this issue is turned into a "btw. footnote" during all negotiation attempts. Also him going on Tucker and starting to ramble about the Cro Magnon making "Rus! Rus!" noises when hunting after mammoths on the future territory of Ukraine. What sent me down the rabbit hole of what is probably actually going on was Gorbachev telling journalists that "he's rewatched Putins speech on the 2007 Munich Security Conference" when asked why this war is happening. That was just before his death. On the other hand, we shouldn't underestimate Putin. The guy had unrestricted access to some of the world's best intelligence services for decades, hundreds of analysts looking at every situation from every angle, a direct line of communication to absolutely anyone he wants, unmatched political experience and worst of all, he's devilish smart. There's probably not a single person on earth who could figure out Putin's true intentions and ways of thinking if he intended to keep them hidden. > What exactly would make you think think Russia's promises about a peace agreement are worth any more then the agreement they've already willingly broken? These agreements do not exist in a vacuum. There are motivations behind this war and these might be perfectly addressable via peaceful means. That the US and Russia are now talking makes this even more likely. Most people dont believe this, but Russia doesnt want Ukrainian territory except for Crimea (due to its strategic control over the Strait of Kerch, I assume). This is because of the utter mess it'll cause in the future. Even before the current war (2022) Ukraine was the single most mined country in the world. The amount of explosives out in the open is beyond mind boggling and the war was just making it ever more worse. Then there's the wide spread destruction caused by the Donbass conflict since 2014 and the huge amounts of weapons floating around. Now you annex that territory. Suddenly you've got yourself a whole army of well trained, well armed and very disgruntled former Ukrainians. So on top of all the previous problems you've signed yourself up for, you've now got yourself an entire new population of people relying on welfare, because all of the economy in their area was destroyed, millions of homeless, because their cities were destroyed, and many of them are willing to launch the largest insurgency of the century against you and are perfectly trained and equipped to do so. Every piece of Ukraine Russia tries to gobble up will poison it for decades. IMO Russia is genuinely scared of Ukraine joining NATO, hence when Ukraine joined the NATO EOP program (used by Sweden and Finland to join NATO) Russia began preparing the 2022 invasion.

somerandomqaguy 2y ago

You do realize of course that the Russians had already signed the Budapest Memorandum in which the Russian Federation would not use military or economic force against Ukraine except in self defence? Or Russia's insistence that the Little Green Men in Crimea were not Russians forces, in spite of the fact that somehow these militiamen had the cutting edge of issued Russian Army equipment. And that the invasion of Ukraine was justified in removing Nazis. As if somehow the single Azov Brigade was somehow actually in control of Ukraine. This whole argument that Ukraine and the EU could stop this slaughter is inane. What exactly would make you think think Russia's promises about a peace agreement are worth any more then the agreement they've already willingly broken? What makes you think they're telling the truth this time around when they have been disinclined to do so thus far?

DeepSeaTortoise 2y ago
> You do realize of course that the Russians had already signed the Budapest Memorandum in which the Russian Federation would not use military or economic force against Ukraine except in self defence? Not only military, but also economic and political coercion. In hindsight it was a huge mistake when the US established it as not binding in order to sanction Belarus in 2013. > Or Russia's insistence that the Little Green Men in Crimea were not Russians forces I'm not sure on this, but it not unlikely Russia could not officially act until the "Republic of Crimea" requested it. That's why local militias from overseas were decided by themselves to organize an "election" about whether the "Republic of Crimea" should declare independence or on the other hand if the "Republic of Crimea" should declare independence. And afterwards these militias finally got to join the Russian forces, for which they all had completed the necessary paperwork years ago. > And that the invasion of Ukraine was justified in removing Nazis. This completely breaks my mind as well. Sure, Ukraine has a very ... odd ... relationship with their Nazi past, but Putin was acting as if the Nazis from the dark side of the moon had descended upon Ukraine. And then this issue is turned into a "btw. footnote" during all negotiation attempts. Also him going on Tucker and starting to ramble about the Cro Magnon making "Rus! Rus!" noises when hunting after mammoths on the future territory of Ukraine. What sent me down the rabbit hole of what is probably actually going on was Gorbachev telling journalists that "he's rewatched Putins speech on the 2007 Munich Security Conference" when asked why this war is happening. That was just before his death. On the other hand, we shouldn't underestimate Putin. The guy had unrestricted access to some of the world's best intelligence services for decades, hundreds of analysts looking at every situation from every angle, a direct line of communication to absolutely anyone he wants, unmatched political experience and worst of all, he's devilish smart. There's probably not a single person on earth who could figure out Putin's true intentions and ways of thinking if he intended to keep them hidden. > What exactly would make you think think Russia's promises about a peace agreement are worth any more then the agreement they've already willingly broken? These agreements do not exist in a vacuum. There are motivations behind this war and these might be perfectly addressable via peaceful means. That the US and Russia are now talking makes this even more likely. Most people dont believe this, but Russia doesnt want Ukrainian territory except for Crimea (due to its strategic control over the Strait of Kerch, I assume). This is because of the utter mess it'll cause in the future. Even before the current war (2022) Ukraine was the single most mined country in the world. The amount of explosives out in the open is beyond mind boggling and the war was just making it ever more worse. Then there's the wide spread destruction caused by the Donbass conflict since 2014 and the huge amounts of weapons floating around. Now you annex that territory. Suddenly you've got yourself a whole army of well trained, well armed and very disgruntled former Ukrainians. So on top of all the previous problems you've signed yourself up for, you've now got yourself an entire new population of people relying on welfare, because all of the economy in their area was destroyed, millions of homeless, because their cities were destroyed, and many of them are willing to launch the largest insurgency of the century against you and are perfectly trained and equipped to do so. Every piece of Ukraine Russia tries to gobble up will poison it for decades. IMO Russia is genuinely scared of Ukraine joining NATO, hence when Ukraine joined the NATO EOP program (used by Sweden and Finland to join NATO) Russia began preparing the 2022 invasion.