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Is the backlash worse than the Bush invasion of Iraq in 2003? Is it worse than the first Trump administration? Genuinely curious. The reality is the 50% of vote

Is the backlash worse than the Bush invasion of Iraq in 2003? Is it worse than the first Trump administration? Genuinely curious. The reality is the 50% of voters who DID not vote for the current president are just as shell shocked as the Europeans. Only we KNEW it was coming.

dralley 2y ago
Not a European, but yes. The US is actively siding with Russia against Europe during the largest war in Europe since WWII, and using the threat of revoking access to American tech (Starlink) and weapons to force them into a terrible and exploitative agreement whose only beneficiaries are the US and Russia. Europeans now need to realistically consider that working with US technology companies is like relying on Russian gas, because those threats have actually been made. Meanwhile our President also keeps threatening to invade sovereign territory (Greenland) of a NATO ally (Denmark) and using language w/r/t Canada that is almost indistinguishable from how Russia talked about Ukraine a decade ago. And Canadians are fucking pissed about it. It's very, very different than his first term or even Iraq.
0xbs0d 2y ago
It's much, much worse than both of those. And we view it more like, only 1/3 of Americans have voted against this while 1/3 voted for it and 1/3 was ok with that. So yeah, the resentment and anger towards the US and it's citizens is growing.
julianpye 2y ago
It's totally different. There was negative public sentiment, but the diplomatic relations still were stable and good. Germany wanted to be convinced, but could not be. Tony Blair went with Bush. This time it is diplomats that are raising the flags. It actually has not yet arrived in the public sphere as drastically as it has in the policy side.
kjrfghslkdjfl 2y ago
[dead]
miklosz 2y ago
Yes, it's much worse than 2003. Back then, multiple NATO countries took part in the invasion of Iraq, as US invoked Article 5. Now, 22 years later US is saying "f... o..". In the first term Trump was unprepared, now they had 4 years to prepare and it seems they are very methodical in dismantling US global influence, and but also dismantling structures internally. As far as I'm worried about security of Europe or Far East allies (Japan, SK, Taiwan, Philippines), I'm worried about future of US itself.
gloomyday 2y ago
It is much worse. Europeans are seeing Trump say and do things seen in Nazi Germany, including the failed coup years ago, the current removal of key government officials, and filling their positions with loyalists. Not to mention siding with Russia. Europeans see this as treason, and it is.
computerthings 2y ago
You mean during the war of aggression when many Americans pretended to be Canadians when on vacation abroad, be it out of shame or fear of reprisal? And mind you, that was without any Hitler salutes or calling astronauts "retards", that was "just" war under the pretense of being very concerned and wanting to avoid "a smoking gun in form of a mushroom cloud". We knew that was bullshit, but at least there was this pretense, that kinda softened and muddled things a bit. This time, it's also war, but it's in Europe. And there isn't even any tribute paid to decency even in the form of bald lies and hypocrisy, there is just a deranged snarl.
cldellow 2y ago
I'm Canadian. We definitely had a dim view of the Iraq invasion. At the time, I ran a Microsoft recruiting event on campus at University of Waterloo. Students made some widget using whatever framework du jour was popular in order to win a prize. The top-voted widget was one that showed how many Iraqi civilians had been killed by the US so far during the war. Still, we sort of understood: y'all had a legitimate grievance due to 9/11 (just, not, y'know, against Iraq...) We had a dim view of the first Trump administration. Muslim ban? Trump's anti-vax horseshit during a pandemic? January 6? And then Americans re-elected him. Whether it's the Nazi stuff, the tariff stuff, the annexation stuff, the trans stuff, the firing the blacks and women stuff, it's just exhausting chaos that was all predictable. Now we have a dim view of Americans. There is a benefit, in that I'm hopeful this will be the impetus for Canada to become a more serious country. Still, it's incredibly wasteful. If we retool to trade more with Europe and Asia, both Canada and the US will be poorer for it. But god, it will be worth it.
deleted 2y ago
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maxmcorp 2y ago
Oh yes. Much worse. Those times it was an intellectual resistance. This time it is visceral. We are seething angry.

dralley 2y ago

Not a European, but yes. The US is actively siding with Russia against Europe during the largest war in Europe since WWII, and using the threat of revoking access to American tech (Starlink) and weapons to force them into a terrible and exploitative agreement whose only beneficiaries are the US and Russia. Europeans now need to realistically consider that working with US technology companies is like relying on Russian gas, because those threats have actually been made. Meanwhile our President also keeps threatening to invade sovereign territory (Greenland) of a NATO ally (Denmark) and using language w/r/t Canada that is almost indistinguishable from how Russia talked about Ukraine a decade ago. And Canadians are fucking pissed about it. It's very, very different than his first term or even Iraq.

0xbs0d 2y ago

It's much, much worse than both of those. And we view it more like, only 1/3 of Americans have voted against this while 1/3 voted for it and 1/3 was ok with that. So yeah, the resentment and anger towards the US and it's citizens is growing.

julianpye 2y ago

It's totally different. There was negative public sentiment, but the diplomatic relations still were stable and good. Germany wanted to be convinced, but could not be. Tony Blair went with Bush. This time it is diplomats that are raising the flags. It actually has not yet arrived in the public sphere as drastically as it has in the policy side.

kjrfghslkdjfl 2y ago

[dead]

miklosz 2y ago

Yes, it's much worse than 2003. Back then, multiple NATO countries took part in the invasion of Iraq, as US invoked Article 5. Now, 22 years later US is saying "f... o..". In the first term Trump was unprepared, now they had 4 years to prepare and it seems they are very methodical in dismantling US global influence, and but also dismantling structures internally. As far as I'm worried about security of Europe or Far East allies (Japan, SK, Taiwan, Philippines), I'm worried about future of US itself.

gloomyday 2y ago

It is much worse. Europeans are seeing Trump say and do things seen in Nazi Germany, including the failed coup years ago, the current removal of key government officials, and filling their positions with loyalists. Not to mention siding with Russia. Europeans see this as treason, and it is.

computerthings 2y ago

You mean during the war of aggression when many Americans pretended to be Canadians when on vacation abroad, be it out of shame or fear of reprisal? And mind you, that was without any Hitler salutes or calling astronauts "retards", that was "just" war under the pretense of being very concerned and wanting to avoid "a smoking gun in form of a mushroom cloud". We knew that was bullshit, but at least there was this pretense, that kinda softened and muddled things a bit. This time, it's also war, but it's in Europe. And there isn't even any tribute paid to decency even in the form of bald lies and hypocrisy, there is just a deranged snarl.

cldellow 2y ago

I'm Canadian. We definitely had a dim view of the Iraq invasion. At the time, I ran a Microsoft recruiting event on campus at University of Waterloo. Students made some widget using whatever framework du jour was popular in order to win a prize. The top-voted widget was one that showed how many Iraqi civilians had been killed by the US so far during the war. Still, we sort of understood: y'all had a legitimate grievance due to 9/11 (just, not, y'know, against Iraq...) We had a dim view of the first Trump administration. Muslim ban? Trump's anti-vax horseshit during a pandemic? January 6? And then Americans re-elected him. Whether it's the Nazi stuff, the tariff stuff, the annexation stuff, the trans stuff, the firing the blacks and women stuff, it's just exhausting chaos that was all predictable. Now we have a dim view of Americans. There is a benefit, in that I'm hopeful this will be the impetus for Canada to become a more serious country. Still, it's incredibly wasteful. If we retool to trade more with Europe and Asia, both Canada and the US will be poorer for it. But god, it will be worth it.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

maxmcorp 2y ago

Oh yes. Much worse. Those times it was an intellectual resistance. This time it is visceral. We are seething angry.