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Brazil justice orders ban of video platform Rumble
- blackeyeblitzar 2y agoAlexandre de Moraes strikes again, with his sweeping anti democratic censorship orders. This man likes to suppress his political opposition - previously that meant banning individual users or deleting content but now it means entire platforms. Many journalists and nonprofits have called him a threat to Brazilian democracy for good reason (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/22/world/americas/brazil-alexandre-de-moraes.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/22/world/americas/brazil-ale...). Also see this comparison of the Brazilian constitution and example censorship orders from de Moraes (https://x.com/alexandrefiles/status/1829979981130416479/photo/1 https://x.com/alexandrefiles/status/1829979981130416479/phot...).
- rapsey 2y agoFunny when he had a spat with X and Musk, everyone was using it to bash Musk. Now suddenly it is actually Moraes who is the bad guy.
- 4ad 2y agoPerhaps "everyone" was really just two groups of people all along, one which kept silent in one occasion and the other in the other occasion. Or perhaps you're right and people really have no moral principles and just say whatever is more convenient at different times. That's a scary thought. I choose to believe in the first alternative. Plenty of people complained about Moraes when he was bashing Musk.
- rapsey 2y agoWell it is often one side dominating the debate and the other gets down voted to oblivion and called names when it comes to topics involving Musk.
- thrwwy001 2y ago[flagged]
- zamadatix 2y agoI think there is a tendency to remember on those we spent the time disagreeing with more, or some similar effect, and then thinking "well gee, before the only thing people seemed to care about was disagreeing with me about <divisive subtopic> instead of <topic>". E.g. picking a random post result from an Algolia search https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41275600 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41275600 Top comment: Discussion on Moraes, not Musk Second comment: References Elon/Elon's past compliance, some replies bash others support the policy Third comment: About how companies will have to deal with more international events like this Fourth comment: Mentions X but not Musk, some replies get into Elon back & forth though Fifth comment: A pretty plain Musk bash Overall sentiment of Musk certainly wasn't in overwhelming favor of Musk but the top commend and many other threads were focus on Moraes or things other than Musk. Of those that were, most seemed to mention him to bash but certainly not "everyone" bashing him by any measure of the word. I think you see a lot more "dunk" on posts when it comes to the general political area around "Rumble" or the like. Personally more dunking on than I think is often fair as well, even though that direction is not my personal leaning. Musk himself is actually much less of a downvote trigger, even though he's got a way of getting mentioned way more often than he should in threads (like how the comments on this article have become largely about him when it's about Brazil and Rumble).
- Xunjin 2y ago[flagged]
- mullingitover 2y agoIf Rumble wants to operate in Brazil all they need to do is…operate in Brazil. They’re getting blocked because they won’t staff the company there and they’re getting into legal trouble for the content they post. Twitter went through this and they were able to get legal and they’re fine now. It’s almost as if they’re not actually being persecuted for their right-wing political beliefs and they’re simply dealing with the natural consequences of their actions.
- victor22 2y agoStaff the company there? Is this really how the internet has EVER worked?
- HeatrayEnjoyer 2y agoWhat does that have to do with anything? Brazilian law is quite clear. Whatever someone thinks the internet "was" or was not is immaterial.
- huang_chung 2y ago[flagged]
- simtel20 2y ago[flagged]
- huang_chung 2y agoCensorship is wrong in every case, even more wrong when the motivation is extortion. History has taught us this.
- simtel20 2y agoOk, are you ascribing a motive of extortion here? You seem to be repeating an awfully simple principle but not making clear what you think the context is. Could you explain what your perspective is here?
- dyauspitr 2y ago[flagged]
- unocard 2y ago[flagged]
- tomrod 2y ago[flagged]
- foxygen 2y agoThe Supreme Court Justice is banning people, not the platform owners...
- dyauspitr 2y ago[flagged]
- DeepSeaTortoise 2y agoSo by anyone else's standards, but those who declare others to be "violent fascists", regular people.
- bdcravens 2y agoApples and oranges. This isn't a platform banning individual users; this is a government banning an entire platform.
- dyauspitr 2y ago[flagged]
- loufe 2y agoI'm an avid reader of Glenn Greenwald (of the Snowden mass-surveillance revelations) and he's been talking about the lawsuit they're bringing against the government following this. I really love the type non-partisan journalism that he practices and hope they manage to shut this nonsense down.
- seattle_spring 2y agoGlenn Greenwald has not been "non-partisan" for years. https://www.powells.com/book/owned-9781645030461 https://www.powells.com/book/owned-9781645030461
- C0d3G4rd 2y agoI’m not sure about Glenn Greenwald, but this author seems extremely left / socialist. Here’s a tweet where he calls for Silicon Valley to be nationalized. I would take that into account. https://x.com/eoinhiggins_/status/1891267740247237109?s=46 https://x.com/eoinhiggins_/status/1891267740247237109?s=46
- d0100 2y agoIt's funny how the left turned on Greenwald the minute he deviated from their ideological line I find he is consistent on his ideology, but I don't follow him closely to confirm my speculation
- TiredOfLife 2y agoGlenn Greenwald together with Snowden reposts Russian misinformation verbatim.
- dyauspitr 2y ago[flagged]
- verisimi 2y agoWhat's with all the flagged and dead comments? Reading them, they mostly seem acceptably divergent political opinion, nothing that worrisome imo.
- krapp 2y agowelcome to the wonderful experience of political discussions on hacker news
- user3939382 2y agoThe mods like to pretend that diverse perspectives are always welcome, flags are only for guidelines. Definitely not true. If your opinion falls too far out of the HN overton window you’re silenced.
- flykespice 2y agoIt's atonishing that political discussion is even allowed in _Hacker_ News. What is the rationale?
- jack_h 2y agoI think the incentive structures created by adding the concept of voting and flagging posts destroy the possibility of productive conversation long-term. If a user can control the visibility of opinions with less effort than defeating those opinions through debate then that mode of operation will end up dominating. Throw in enough users who have similar beliefs within this incentive structure and you start seeing some narratives promoted through upvotes and others hidden through downvotes and flagging. HN obviously has some magic sauce and wonderful moderators to try and prevent this, but I think they're fighting a losing battle just like every other online forum with similar mechanics.
- cesarb 2y agoFor things like that, I always like to go to the source, and read the original order. It's the PDF at the bottom of this page: https://noticias.stf.jus.br/postsnoticias/stf-determina-suspensao-da-plataforma-rumble-em-todo-o-pais/ https://noticias.stf.jus.br/postsnoticias/stf-determina-susp... (it also has a link to a page with the PDF of the earlier order from two days ago).
- simtel20 2y agoIf I'm reading that correctly, the court is taking this action after requesting that rumble respond to their requests and rumble has not responded. It's not censorship from the get-go, it's brinkmanship from rumble to get this response, it seems
- huang_chung 2y ago[flagged]
- simtel20 2y agoWhat makes you think I specifically would think differently about apple? I don't think I've said anything here that would indicate that, so it seems like you're projecting. The idea of a free Internet is an ideal that is subject to the sovereign laws of the country the packets travel to, and that is playing out here. All I know is that it's important to learn the lessons being taught now in the 2020s where control of the data transmitted to populations is how politics is won Regarding this answer being posted twice, I guess my edit to the response in the wrong thread wasn't accepted, not much anyone but the mods can do about that now.
- huang_chung 2y agoAccepting censorship as a lost cause will be detrimental to society. Websites are subject to the laws in which they are based, not the packets' destination! Example: Germany requires Impressum displayed upon the website. It is requires only for sites based in Germany and not enforceable anywhere else!
- victor22 2y agoBrazilian here. This guy is the most power crook in power, and he's definetely has been abusing it, many similar cases. The guys from Rumble are lucky they are not in Brazil, otherwise they would be fucked, extortion for sure (pay or go to jail / get fucked). Also, google him, he looks exactly like a evil movie villain, and he has this nasty villan look all the time.
- simtel20 2y agoIf I'm reading that correctly, the court is taking this action after requesting that rumble respond to their requests and rumble has not responded. It's not censorship from the get-go, it's brinkmanship from rumble to get this response, it seems
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- simtel20 2y agoThis is HN, not twitter. Can you provide some more context or links to support your take on this?
- ndr42 2y ago>Also, google him, he looks exactly like a evil movie villain, and he has this nasty villan look all the time. So the way somebody looks is half of your argument?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- AlecSchueler 2y agoYeah, why mention his appearance at all? It's crass and his actions should speak for themselves. Someone can be born with "villainesque" features and live a noble life, it's unfair to disadvantage them by perpetuating negative stereotypes.
- almosthere 2y agoHonestly we need a NATO of internet. If any country bans speech, they lose ALL internet access. Then send the country a message: "You requested to be shut off from a specific IP, so we blocked x.x.x.x/0"
- sorushn 2y agoWe're gonna end up with literally every country losing access to the Internet.
- almosthere 2y agoAnd when they want it back, they'll drop the bans!
- zwirbl 2y agoOr they never try to get i back but have now a conveniently locked down internet for their citizen, nicely packaged with a scapegoat to wag their finger at shouting "look at these evil countries trying to force their will on us, they keep YOU from the internet"
- tumsfestival 2y agoYou're so naive...
- idiotsecant 2y agoI think you're assuming the leadership of those countries will think this is a bad thing. It wouldn't be. They would get to make the big mean globalists the bad guy and tamp down dissent in their country simultaneously.
- DeepSeaTortoise 2y agoThey absolutely wouldn't make the globalists the bad guys. They'd hail them as our saviors, heroically travelling from country to country in their private jets and yachts to share with us USB sticks full of information and news "from other countries".
- betaby 2y agoMoraes issues about ~10 domains bans per week, every week. It's nothing new. However we (English speakers) hear only about high profile sites.