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> repopulate with people loyal to you What happened to merit? competence? This is the recipe for corruption that was eliminated back in the progressive era of

> repopulate with people loyal to you What happened to merit? competence? This is the recipe for corruption that was eliminated back in the progressive era of the early 20th century. It's what gave us Tammany Hall and Boss Tweed. Repopulating organizations with loyal stooges is not constructive.

_heimdall 2y ago
> What happened to merit To be fair, that's a question driving much of the push back against DEI as well. Both parties in the US have selectively ignored or called for merit based systems, depending on what suited them for a particular topic.
- _DeadFred_ 2y ago
  So fire the most competent people (people are placed on probation for 2 years when promoted in the Feds,people being promoted are normally ones you want to keep, and Trump/Elon are blanket firing everyone on probation) because DEI exists?
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    That's not my argument at all. Firing probationary employees is really the only immediate lever they had, my understanding I'd that other employees are better protected. Is it the right approach? Definitely not, but that doesn't mean it can't be a step in a better direction. That all depends on your goals and what you want to happen, I couldn't answer that question no matter what.
    - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
      Probationary employees can more easily be fired for cause. Thousands of employees, including some of the best who had recently been promoted, were given the reason 'poor performance'. So you are OK with firing the best because 'otherwise it's hard'. You are OK with breaking the law because 'otherwise it's hard'. You are OK with lying to people why they are fired because 'otherwise it's hard'. You just want action and don't care if it's smart action, legal, or fair. That is item 3 on the checklist of fascism. "The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation." https://www.openculture.com/2024/11/umberto-ecos-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html https://www.openculture.com/2024/11/umberto-ecos-list-of-the...
- acdha 2y ago
  DEI is merit: the entire point is NOT passing over qualified applicants because they don’t fit a given image. If you look at the people axing DEI programs, note how they’re almost all sons of affluence who aren’t exceptionally qualified.
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    That's a very gracious description of any DEI program I've had personal experience with. DEI programs and similar work by focusing more effort on underrepresented groups. By design that puts less focus on overrepresented groups, and splits that focus away from merit all together. Arguing that everyone should have equal opportunity to succeed is admirable and a great goal to have. I've never seen a DEI program that implements that or stops at that goal though, they need more immediate results and focus instead on helping to select under represented groups into positions to better balance the statistics.
    - acdha 2y ago
      The ones I’ve worked with uniformly focused on making sure that hiring didn’t inadvertently rule people out. This often benefited white people, too: if you’re a vet with a thick southern accent and without a degree, getting the chance to interview is important for being able to demonstrate that you’ve acquired the required skills by other means.

_heimdall 2y ago

> What happened to merit To be fair, that's a question driving much of the push back against DEI as well. Both parties in the US have selectively ignored or called for merit based systems, depending on what suited them for a particular topic.

_DeadFred_ 2y ago
So fire the most competent people (people are placed on probation for 2 years when promoted in the Feds,people being promoted are normally ones you want to keep, and Trump/Elon are blanket firing everyone on probation) because DEI exists?
- _heimdall 2y ago
  That's not my argument at all. Firing probationary employees is really the only immediate lever they had, my understanding I'd that other employees are better protected. Is it the right approach? Definitely not, but that doesn't mean it can't be a step in a better direction. That all depends on your goals and what you want to happen, I couldn't answer that question no matter what.
  - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
    Probationary employees can more easily be fired for cause. Thousands of employees, including some of the best who had recently been promoted, were given the reason 'poor performance'. So you are OK with firing the best because 'otherwise it's hard'. You are OK with breaking the law because 'otherwise it's hard'. You are OK with lying to people why they are fired because 'otherwise it's hard'. You just want action and don't care if it's smart action, legal, or fair. That is item 3 on the checklist of fascism. "The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation." https://www.openculture.com/2024/11/umberto-ecos-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html https://www.openculture.com/2024/11/umberto-ecos-list-of-the...
acdha 2y ago
DEI is merit: the entire point is NOT passing over qualified applicants because they don’t fit a given image. If you look at the people axing DEI programs, note how they’re almost all sons of affluence who aren’t exceptionally qualified.
- _heimdall 2y ago
  That's a very gracious description of any DEI program I've had personal experience with. DEI programs and similar work by focusing more effort on underrepresented groups. By design that puts less focus on overrepresented groups, and splits that focus away from merit all together. Arguing that everyone should have equal opportunity to succeed is admirable and a great goal to have. I've never seen a DEI program that implements that or stops at that goal though, they need more immediate results and focus instead on helping to select under represented groups into positions to better balance the statistics.
  - acdha 2y ago
    The ones I’ve worked with uniformly focused on making sure that hiring didn’t inadvertently rule people out. This often benefited white people, too: if you’re a vet with a thick southern accent and without a degree, getting the chance to interview is important for being able to demonstrate that you’ve acquired the required skills by other means.