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It seems like a reasonable opinion for a voter to agree with things they don't like to be stopped though. Maybe the voter doesn't actually care about fraud, bu

It seems like a reasonable opinion for a voter to agree with things they don't like to be stopped though. Maybe the voter doesn't actually care about fraud, but why shouldn't they appreciate having fewer of their tax dollars being spent on things they don't even agree with?

relaxing 2y ago
> why shouldn't they appreciate having fewer of their tax dollars being spent on things they don't even agree with? Democracy doesn’t mean we all agree.
- _heimdall 2y ago
  Of course. Democracy does mean we make our bed and then have to sleep in it though. Assuming we do have a democracy today (I'd argue that's questionable for many reasons), a majority of voters and electoral college representatives voted for Trump. Trump so far is doing many of the things he said he would do. For better or worse our democracy picked this. If it goes poorly we can only blame ourselves.
  - ModernMech 2y ago
    > Assuming we do have a democracy today (I'd argue that's questionable for many reasons), a majority of voters and electoral college representatives voted for Trump. It's not a winner take all system. If a bunch of racists get elected to office, they can't just claim a "mandate" and declare the Civil Right Act null and void by refusing to enforce it. The President enforces all the laws, even the ones his voters don't support. If he wants to change them, he can sign a bill into law, he can veto a bill, but he can't pick and choose to enforce just Republican passed laws.
    - _heimdall 2y ago
      If a bunch of racists run on such ideas and say that's what they will do, and they win an election what are we supposed to do? We either believe in democracy and accept that means majority rules, or we don't and we might as well pick a different system as we don't really believe in the principles of democracy.
      - ModernMech 2y ago
        Democracy does not mean majority does whatever they want. The Constitution says the majority has to follow the law, even if the law was passed by the people currently in the minority. If they want to change the law they have that power, but they can't just break the law.
        _heimdall 2y ago
        Of course, existing laws do limit what that group would do. If they won in sufficient numbers though, laws on the books would allow them to change the laws restricting them. I'm not saying its a good thing, just how it works. True democracy is a leap of faith, you need to trust that most people are generally good and are generally well intended.
      - watwut 2y ago
        I would printout that they spent a lot of effort to deny they are racists. Even now as they are enacting long term plans their supporters claim it is something else. Trump did not run on "I will anex canada, make inflation higher, order damm release and slash department of education". Some parts he run at - he promised to harm trans and he is delivering.
        _heimdall 2y ago
        I could have sworn he, or those very closely circled around him, talked specifically about education and the need to reform DoE. I don't remember for sure now, honestly the campaigns feels like years ago already. He didn't run on annexing Canada, he almost certainly doesn't want to though. Trump is a bully and just likes to play cheap games when negotiating. He raised the idea of making Canada a state while also pushing hard on border issues and tariffs. He was just fainting there to try to gain the upper hand. Inflation is a joke with him. He's completely contradictory there, though that is pretty common. I don't think Trump understands or cares about inflation, it just polls well. He did run on tariffs though, and any voter didn't understand that leads to inflation can only blame themselves.
      - linkgoron 2y ago
    - shadowgovt 2y ago
      De-facto, he can until Congress impeaches and removes him for shirking his office. Trump doesn't see that as a likely outcome.
viraptor 2y ago
It's a short term strategy though. If you go with "doesn't matter if it's true if it benefits me", the next "fraud" to be removed may be yours/you. And someone else will like it too.
- _heimdall 2y ago
  Politics is full of short term strategies. I agree that's a bad approach in almost every situation, but it is par for the course. That isn't to say its okay, but there are worse examples of short term strategies to take issue with if that's the concern.

relaxing 2y ago

> why shouldn't they appreciate having fewer of their tax dollars being spent on things they don't even agree with? Democracy doesn’t mean we all agree.

_heimdall 2y ago
Of course. Democracy does mean we make our bed and then have to sleep in it though. Assuming we do have a democracy today (I'd argue that's questionable for many reasons), a majority of voters and electoral college representatives voted for Trump. Trump so far is doing many of the things he said he would do. For better or worse our democracy picked this. If it goes poorly we can only blame ourselves.
- ModernMech 2y ago
  > Assuming we do have a democracy today (I'd argue that's questionable for many reasons), a majority of voters and electoral college representatives voted for Trump. It's not a winner take all system. If a bunch of racists get elected to office, they can't just claim a "mandate" and declare the Civil Right Act null and void by refusing to enforce it. The President enforces all the laws, even the ones his voters don't support. If he wants to change them, he can sign a bill into law, he can veto a bill, but he can't pick and choose to enforce just Republican passed laws.
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    If a bunch of racists run on such ideas and say that's what they will do, and they win an election what are we supposed to do? We either believe in democracy and accept that means majority rules, or we don't and we might as well pick a different system as we don't really believe in the principles of democracy.
    - ModernMech 2y ago
      Democracy does not mean majority does whatever they want. The Constitution says the majority has to follow the law, even if the law was passed by the people currently in the minority. If they want to change the law they have that power, but they can't just break the law.
      - _heimdall 2y ago
        Of course, existing laws do limit what that group would do. If they won in sufficient numbers though, laws on the books would allow them to change the laws restricting them. I'm not saying its a good thing, just how it works. True democracy is a leap of faith, you need to trust that most people are generally good and are generally well intended.
    - watwut 2y ago
      I would printout that they spent a lot of effort to deny they are racists. Even now as they are enacting long term plans their supporters claim it is something else. Trump did not run on "I will anex canada, make inflation higher, order damm release and slash department of education". Some parts he run at - he promised to harm trans and he is delivering.
      - _heimdall 2y ago
        I could have sworn he, or those very closely circled around him, talked specifically about education and the need to reform DoE. I don't remember for sure now, honestly the campaigns feels like years ago already. He didn't run on annexing Canada, he almost certainly doesn't want to though. Trump is a bully and just likes to play cheap games when negotiating. He raised the idea of making Canada a state while also pushing hard on border issues and tariffs. He was just fainting there to try to gain the upper hand. Inflation is a joke with him. He's completely contradictory there, though that is pretty common. I don't think Trump understands or cares about inflation, it just polls well. He did run on tariffs though, and any voter didn't understand that leads to inflation can only blame themselves.
    - linkgoron 2y ago
  - shadowgovt 2y ago
    De-facto, he can until Congress impeaches and removes him for shirking his office. Trump doesn't see that as a likely outcome.

viraptor 2y ago

It's a short term strategy though. If you go with "doesn't matter if it's true if it benefits me", the next "fraud" to be removed may be yours/you. And someone else will like it too.

_heimdall 2y ago
Politics is full of short term strategies. I agree that's a bad approach in almost every situation, but it is par for the course. That isn't to say its okay, but there are worse examples of short term strategies to take issue with if that's the concern.