4 ms·

No root daemon got replaced with "but if you want a replacement for docker compose you ought to be using systemd (quadlets)". Meh

• officialchicken 2y ago
  Incorrect, the use of a non-root daemon is essential for isolation and security.
  • pydry 2y ago
    Im fully on board with the idea that root daemons shouldnt be necessary I just dont want systemd to become a dependency for yet again something else it shouldnt be a dependency for.
    • KAMSPioneer 2y ago
      Podman runs on FreeBSD without systemd, so there you go.
      • pydry 2y ago
        yeah, it runs fine without systemd, until you need a docker compose substitute and then you get told to use quadlets (systemd), podman compose (neglected and broken as fuck) or docker compose (with a daemon! also not totally compatible) or even kubernetes...
    • powerhugs 2y ago
      Huh, that's another uninformed take. systemd is at it's core an app for running services, such as containers. You should read up on podman and systemd before making up more arguments.
      • windexh8er 2y ago
        The point is that RedHat went on a tirade for years telling everyone: "Docker bad, root! Podman good, no root! Docker bad, daemon! Podman good, no daemon!". And then here comes Quadlets and the systemd requirements. Irony at its finest! The reality is Podman is good software if you've locked yourself into a corner with Dan Walsh and RHEL. In that case, enjoy. For everyone else the OSS ecosystem that is Docker actually has less licensing overhead and restrictions, in the long run, than dealing with IBM/RedHat. IMO that is.
        • KAMSPioneer 2y ago
          But...you don't need systemd or Quadlets to run Podman, it's just convenient. You can also use podman-compose (I personally don't, but a coworker does and it's reasonable). But yeah I already use a distro with systemd (most folks do, I think), so for me, using Podman with systemd doesn't add a root daemon, it reuses an existing one (again, for most Linux distros/users).
          • windexh8er 2y ago
            Exactly my point. Today I can run docker rootless and in that case can leverage compose in the same manner. Is it the default? No, you've got me there. SystemD runs as root. It's just ironic given all the hand waving over the years. And Docker, and all it's tooling, are so ubiquitous and well thought out that Podman and friends are literally a reimplementation which is the selling point. I've used Podman. It's fine. But the arguments of the past aren't as sharp as they originally were. I believe Docker improved because of Podman, so there's that. But to discount the reality of the doublespeak by paid for representatives from RedHat/IBM is, again, ironic.
            • amluto 2y ago
              > And Docker, and all it's tooling, are so ubiquitous and well thought out that Podman and friends are literally a reimplementation which is the selling point I would argue that Docker’s tooling is not well thought out, and that’s putting it mildly. I can name many things I do not like about is, and I struggle to find things I like about it’s tooling. Podman copied it, which honestly makes me not love podman so much. Podman has quite poor documentation, and it doesn’t even seem to try to build actually good designs for tooling.
      • pydry 2y ago
        Quadlets is systemd. Red hat declared it to be the recommended/blessed way of running containers. podman compose is treated like the bastard stepchild (presumably because it doesnt have systemd as a dependency). Please try to understand the podman ecosystem before lashing out.