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Personally, I hold him in somewhat high regard. At the same time, he made billions while conspiring to deprive many HN users of their just rewards. This should

Personally, I hold him in somewhat high regard. At the same time, he made billions while conspiring to deprive many HN users of their just rewards. This should not be forgotten, or forgiven. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/04/24/306592297/tech-giants-settle-wage-fixing-lawsuit https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/04/24/306592297... https://old.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/y9eyxq/til_during_the_2000s_google_apple_adobe_intel_and/ https://old.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/y9eyxq/til_d...

DC-3 2y ago
> just rewards * liberalised labour market rewards unless you think there is inherent moral justice in being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to write software
- consumer451 2y ago
  Yeah, I escaped communism as a child, so please excuse my potential bias. While I think that pure libertarians are just as silly as pure socialists, I do believe in the benefits of a well regulated market economy. If the market economy indicates that a dev with particular skills can be paid even 10M per year, then heck yes. Good for them. If the companies who hire these devs could not pay that, then the market for them would not exist. They could, and conspired not to. This is why they settled the case.
  - bertylicious 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - consumer451 2y ago
      > and it probably wasn't even communism. Please, tell me more! In your opinion, has "commumism" ever really existed/been implemented properly at scale? If so, please give me an example.
      - bertylicious 2y ago
        There just aren't that many countries that ever claimed to be communist. You speak like a privileged person, so you're probably born somewhere in the western world. Judging from the current time, I'd say Europe. My guess is your parents left socialist (i.e. not communist) Eastern Germany when you were little and you keep telling people that this was your great escape from communism ever since.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        consumer451 2y ago
        Let us avoid the personal, and entirely inaccurate personal attacks on myself. Instead, let's focus on openly provable facts: > There just aren't that many countries that ever claimed to be communist. Are you denying the agency of Russia, Cuba, China, and Vietnam as a few examples? Are you telling me that these countries did not at one point, and most even today, declare themselves as "communist?" It's amazing how privileged you are to deny factual history. [0] To be honest, I feel that you are agreeing with me that "communism" is just some theoretical panacea, as is "libertarianism." Both theoretical concepts which only ever existed in minds of true-believers, and nowhere else. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states
        dns_snek 2y ago
        > Are you telling me that these countries did not at one point, and most even today, declare themselves as "communist?" It's amazing how privileged you are to deny factual history. Many nations "declare" to be something they're not. North Korea is officially "Democratic People's Republic of Korea", for example. Are we now going to evaluate how viable democracy is as a concept by looking at North Korea, simply because they call themselves democratic, or are we first going to analyze their actual political system to determine whether they're actually democratic?
        deleted 2y ago
    - ge96 2y ago
      > no single person should even own... I don't get this, why? Because I exist I deserve equal money as everyone else? If I do succeed I will definitely buy toys (fast cars) but yeah I will help, as there is a cap to minimum needs. Also I don't like being a target eg. stealth wealth they say that I'm currently far from.
      - bertylicious 2y ago
        Alright then, if you absolutely must have a society were people get paid 10M a year, then let's agree to pay all cleaning staff, hospital staff, garbage collectors etc etc 10M and the rest gets enough to live a decent life. How about that?
        ge96 2y ago
        Why, it's merit. A CEO can affect 20,000 people's lives/jobs. Anyway I'm not trying to argue this. I do believe billions is excessive in money to have and also understand it's not liquid. But yeah I think I gotta get there, maybe I too will be an aho with that much money. Even the small amount in comparison that I give away I have this feeling of "mine", why should I? (I have given away at least $70K to my own siblings) Edit: I'm a mediocre person mentally so I doubt I'll get too high but I can get my fun cars they're under a million the ones I want. I have started to want land more than a car though, you can hit 200mph under $100K Edit: I'm also a nice/meek person maybe that is why I'm poor ha
- saagarjha 2y ago
  Seems more moral than their employer conspiring to deprive them of that
  - DC-3 2y ago
    true
- whateveracct 2y ago
  okay britta - are there people starving in uganda too?
- ikekkdcjkfke 2y ago
  I guess if you harbour skills that exceed those rewards you could start on your own taking your own risks. There are some tradeoffs and simple marxism does not take into account all the variables
sneak 2y ago
He was a criminal who literally conspired to steal billions. It wasn’t just deprivation; it was stealing.

DC-3 2y ago

> just rewards * liberalised labour market rewards unless you think there is inherent moral justice in being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to write software

consumer451 2y ago
Yeah, I escaped communism as a child, so please excuse my potential bias. While I think that pure libertarians are just as silly as pure socialists, I do believe in the benefits of a well regulated market economy. If the market economy indicates that a dev with particular skills can be paid even 10M per year, then heck yes. Good for them. If the companies who hire these devs could not pay that, then the market for them would not exist. They could, and conspired not to. This is why they settled the case.
- bertylicious 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - consumer451 2y ago
    > and it probably wasn't even communism. Please, tell me more! In your opinion, has "commumism" ever really existed/been implemented properly at scale? If so, please give me an example.
    - bertylicious 2y ago
      There just aren't that many countries that ever claimed to be communist. You speak like a privileged person, so you're probably born somewhere in the western world. Judging from the current time, I'd say Europe. My guess is your parents left socialist (i.e. not communist) Eastern Germany when you were little and you keep telling people that this was your great escape from communism ever since.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - consumer451 2y ago
        Let us avoid the personal, and entirely inaccurate personal attacks on myself. Instead, let's focus on openly provable facts: > There just aren't that many countries that ever claimed to be communist. Are you denying the agency of Russia, Cuba, China, and Vietnam as a few examples? Are you telling me that these countries did not at one point, and most even today, declare themselves as "communist?" It's amazing how privileged you are to deny factual history. [0] To be honest, I feel that you are agreeing with me that "communism" is just some theoretical panacea, as is "libertarianism." Both theoretical concepts which only ever existed in minds of true-believers, and nowhere else. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states
        dns_snek 2y ago
        > Are you telling me that these countries did not at one point, and most even today, declare themselves as "communist?" It's amazing how privileged you are to deny factual history. Many nations "declare" to be something they're not. North Korea is officially "Democratic People's Republic of Korea", for example. Are we now going to evaluate how viable democracy is as a concept by looking at North Korea, simply because they call themselves democratic, or are we first going to analyze their actual political system to determine whether they're actually democratic?
        deleted 2y ago
  - ge96 2y ago
    > no single person should even own... I don't get this, why? Because I exist I deserve equal money as everyone else? If I do succeed I will definitely buy toys (fast cars) but yeah I will help, as there is a cap to minimum needs. Also I don't like being a target eg. stealth wealth they say that I'm currently far from.
    - bertylicious 2y ago
      Alright then, if you absolutely must have a society were people get paid 10M a year, then let's agree to pay all cleaning staff, hospital staff, garbage collectors etc etc 10M and the rest gets enough to live a decent life. How about that?
      - ge96 2y ago
        Why, it's merit. A CEO can affect 20,000 people's lives/jobs. Anyway I'm not trying to argue this. I do believe billions is excessive in money to have and also understand it's not liquid. But yeah I think I gotta get there, maybe I too will be an aho with that much money. Even the small amount in comparison that I give away I have this feeling of "mine", why should I? (I have given away at least $70K to my own siblings) Edit: I'm a mediocre person mentally so I doubt I'll get too high but I can get my fun cars they're under a million the ones I want. I have started to want land more than a car though, you can hit 200mph under $100K Edit: I'm also a nice/meek person maybe that is why I'm poor ha
saagarjha 2y ago
Seems more moral than their employer conspiring to deprive them of that
- DC-3 2y ago
  true
whateveracct 2y ago
okay britta - are there people starving in uganda too?
ikekkdcjkfke 2y ago
I guess if you harbour skills that exceed those rewards you could start on your own taking your own risks. There are some tradeoffs and simple marxism does not take into account all the variables

sneak 2y ago

He was a criminal who literally conspired to steal billions. It wasn’t just deprivation; it was stealing.