6 ms·

Mechanical engineers are making average professional salaries which indicates that there is no supply problem. I wish these articles would occasionally check th

Mechanical engineers are making average professional salaries which indicates that there is no supply problem. I wish these articles would occasionally check things like labor statistics. Here's another question for aspiring Soviet central planners: which successful American industry should be dismantled to free up the capital for rebuilding Guangzhou? The men and material have to come from somewhere.

ty6853 2y ago
>here's another question for aspiring Soviet central planners: which successful American industry should be dismantled to free up the capital for rebuilding Guangzhou? The men and material have to come from somewhere If serious I'd say 90% of the military. Take the skilled tradesman as the techs and the infantry as the line workers. Generally good, disciplined people and running a factory would bring production instead of destruction of Afghanistan or whatever other ideas used by the higher ups to abuse people that just wanted to defend our country.
- Workaccount2 2y ago
  Ironically having soldiers to supply goods and weapons for is the only thing backstopping most of American manufacturing today.
- whatshisface 2y ago
  But then, comrade, who will defend us from American imperialism? ;-) (Seriously though, the reason that wouldn't work very well, is that industrial production is too complex for a room full of people to organize from the top, down. It becomes too easy for false reports to be sent up the chain, and for bad instructions to be sent down the chain.)
  - ty6853 2y ago
    I hear kalashnokov rifles sell well.
jltsiren 2y ago
Or there could a supply problem, but the employers can't pay more than their international competitors, or they will lose business. Global markets are unforgiving when the same quality of talent is available in multiple countries. If you are not better than your competitors, higher wages lead to a loss of competitiveness. Labor force participation rate in the US is 78.1% (age group 25-64). The rest are neither working nor looking for a job. If you could raise the rate to the same level as in the average OECD country (81.9%), there would be over 6 million people more looking for employment. You could achieve a lot with the additional economic activity.
- whatshisface 2y ago
  That plan, read literally, involves lowering the salary of mechanical engineers while putting more mothers to work.
  - jltsiren 2y ago
    That's what export-driven economies have been doing for generations. You can't compete if you are not serious about it.
    - whatshisface 2y ago
      Export-driven economies have been freeing pesants from the rigours of rural poverty for generations. I don't think destroying Brooklyn is a good idea.
      - jltsiren 2y ago
        I was thinking more about countries like Finland (85.2%), Sweden (89.2%), Norway (84%), and Denmark (84.5%). Or maybe Switzerland (86.8%) or Netherlands (85.4%).
- meristohm 2y ago
  "You could achieve a lot with the additional economic activity." What are you trying to achieve, and why?
roenxi 2y ago
Yeah; a cursory look at salaries suggests the article is misdiagnosing. Most people work in jobs they don't want to do. That is why they are paid in the first place. I'm sure there are shelf stackers in the supermarket where shelf stacking is their ideal job and maybe one day I will meet one. But most would be just as happy to work in a factory instead. The problem is that making factories effective in the US is probably illegal or opposed by the government. China did it by: - Low salaries and not being fussy about conditions (broadly illegal in the US - minimum wage & a relatively heavy union presence). Note that it turns out salaries and conditions for the Chinese started improving rapidly regardless. - Lots of new coal plants, transitioning to big build outs of renewables, nuclear & other investments looking for cheap options guided by what they can install in large quantities. Don't try that in the west; the government has historically been extremely hostile to 2/3 of that. Not sure what the environmental assessment situation is like for renewables in practice observe that Texas is the big US generator and I'd bet there is a regulatory link. - Building lots of things like infrastructure. Appears to be legally difficult in the West as a whole otherwise more people would be doing it. The environmental and community impacts are not tolerated. - Allowing factories to run even when the smog darkens the sky. Running the literal factories in the US would probably not be tolerated. And the political support for all those policies is still there. None of them are going away any time soon. These are trade offs that make it hard to support an industrial society. We don't know how to run an industrial society without producing industrial amounts of waste. Nobody seems to know.

ty6853 2y ago

>here's another question for aspiring Soviet central planners: which successful American industry should be dismantled to free up the capital for rebuilding Guangzhou? The men and material have to come from somewhere If serious I'd say 90% of the military. Take the skilled tradesman as the techs and the infantry as the line workers. Generally good, disciplined people and running a factory would bring production instead of destruction of Afghanistan or whatever other ideas used by the higher ups to abuse people that just wanted to defend our country.

Workaccount2 2y ago
Ironically having soldiers to supply goods and weapons for is the only thing backstopping most of American manufacturing today.
whatshisface 2y ago
But then, comrade, who will defend us from American imperialism? ;-) (Seriously though, the reason that wouldn't work very well, is that industrial production is too complex for a room full of people to organize from the top, down. It becomes too easy for false reports to be sent up the chain, and for bad instructions to be sent down the chain.)
- ty6853 2y ago
  I hear kalashnokov rifles sell well.

jltsiren 2y ago

Or there could a supply problem, but the employers can't pay more than their international competitors, or they will lose business. Global markets are unforgiving when the same quality of talent is available in multiple countries. If you are not better than your competitors, higher wages lead to a loss of competitiveness. Labor force participation rate in the US is 78.1% (age group 25-64). The rest are neither working nor looking for a job. If you could raise the rate to the same level as in the average OECD country (81.9%), there would be over 6 million people more looking for employment. You could achieve a lot with the additional economic activity.

whatshisface 2y ago
That plan, read literally, involves lowering the salary of mechanical engineers while putting more mothers to work.
- jltsiren 2y ago
  That's what export-driven economies have been doing for generations. You can't compete if you are not serious about it.
  - whatshisface 2y ago
    Export-driven economies have been freeing pesants from the rigours of rural poverty for generations. I don't think destroying Brooklyn is a good idea.
    - jltsiren 2y ago
      I was thinking more about countries like Finland (85.2%), Sweden (89.2%), Norway (84%), and Denmark (84.5%). Or maybe Switzerland (86.8%) or Netherlands (85.4%).
meristohm 2y ago
"You could achieve a lot with the additional economic activity." What are you trying to achieve, and why?

roenxi 2y ago

Yeah; a cursory look at salaries suggests the article is misdiagnosing. Most people work in jobs they don't want to do. That is why they are paid in the first place. I'm sure there are shelf stackers in the supermarket where shelf stacking is their ideal job and maybe one day I will meet one. But most would be just as happy to work in a factory instead. The problem is that making factories effective in the US is probably illegal or opposed by the government. China did it by: - Low salaries and not being fussy about conditions (broadly illegal in the US - minimum wage & a relatively heavy union presence). Note that it turns out salaries and conditions for the Chinese started improving rapidly regardless. - Lots of new coal plants, transitioning to big build outs of renewables, nuclear & other investments looking for cheap options guided by what they can install in large quantities. Don't try that in the west; the government has historically been extremely hostile to 2/3 of that. Not sure what the environmental assessment situation is like for renewables in practice observe that Texas is the big US generator and I'd bet there is a regulatory link. - Building lots of things like infrastructure. Appears to be legally difficult in the West as a whole otherwise more people would be doing it. The environmental and community impacts are not tolerated. - Allowing factories to run even when the smog darkens the sky. Running the literal factories in the US would probably not be tolerated. And the political support for all those policies is still there. None of them are going away any time soon. These are trade offs that make it hard to support an industrial society. We don't know how to run an industrial society without producing industrial amounts of waste. Nobody seems to know.