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I mean, having just learned about this drama, it sounds like they might be Nazis? Or at least have Nazi tendencies? Sounds like you have to chalk a few things u

I mean, having just learned about this drama, it sounds like they might be Nazis? Or at least have Nazi tendencies? Sounds like you have to chalk a few things up to coincidence to not even consider the possibility.

arp242 2y ago
Like I said, the only "coincidence" is the torch walk thing. This isn't Elon "I am just throwing my heart out, and oh I also built the world's leading platform for antisemitism and retweeted antisemitic posts" Musk we're talking about here.
- jdiff 2y ago
  It's not the only coincidence, though. One of their hosts is named after Hitler's military headquarters, and one of them has been known to go off about "Cultural Marxism," a very specific term most often used to covertly slip antisemitism into the conversation.
  - slithytoves 2y ago
    > One of their hosts is named after Hitler's military headquarters If by "their" you mean a suckless.org host, no, that's not true. A hostname in the outgoing mail headers of one person posting to the mailing list was "wolfsschanze", i.e., a machine on that user's LAN, not a suckless.org server. The person in question was FRIGN. This got attention because he personally repeatedly pestered Lennart Poettering, who noticed that string in the mail headers and called it out on Twitter. https://web.archive.org/web/20190404160024/https://twitter.com/pid_eins/status/1113738764797534208 https://web.archive.org/web/20190404160024/https://twitter.c... Lennart correctly noted that this hostname was one person's laptop, but this morphed in the public consciousness to "a suckless host is named after Hitler's HQ". > one of them has been known to go off about "Cultural Marxism," This person is also FRIGN. Specifically it's a reference to this lobste.rs comment: https://lobste.rs/s/nf3xgg/i_am_leaving_llvm#c_ze5ccy https://lobste.rs/s/nf3xgg/i_am_leaving_llvm#c_ze5ccy I hear these same two things repeated over and over as evidence of nazism within suckless (example, the Wikipedia talk page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Suckless.org https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Suckless.org), but it is one person (who, granted, maintains at least one suckless.org project https://suckless.org/people/FRIGN/ https://suckless.org/people/FRIGN/). I think badly of him as a result, but I don't see any reason to disbelieve the multiple Germans who tell me that torchlit walks are a common German tradition, or to tie it to the Charlottesville march, which was extremely untraditional in the region it took place in.
    - slithytoves 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - kelnos 2y ago
        I didn't downvote you, but I did reply. For the record, though, no one who gives a downvote should ever feel obligated to reply. Writing out a thoughtful, supported disagreement to something takes work, and often the effort required exceeds what anyone might want to expend. This is especially true if a comment feels like it's especially bad-faith-y (though I'm not saying that's the case for your comment). Your comments don't "deserve" anything. You've decided to spend your time making a point on a random web forum, and that's your choice to make. But you do not get to decide that others are required to spend that time as well when agreeing or disagreeing with your words, regardless of whether or not they've used their voting privileges, in either direction.
        slithytoves 2y ago
        > For the record, though, no one who gives a downvote should ever feel obligated to reply. Writing out a thoughtful, supported disagreement to something takes work, and often the effort required exceeds what anyone might want to expend. Sure, I agree. I counter that it means not that my comments didn't deserve a reply, but that due in part to what you correctly stated, not all comments that deserve replies get them. :)
    - kelnos 2y ago
      The thing that always bothers me about the "it's just one person" defense is... well, what about the other prominent members of the community? How do they feel about this person's beliefs and behavior? I work on Xfce in my spare time with a small group of other developers from around the world, and if I learned that one of them was a neo-nazi, I would immediately call for them to be expelled from the community. If the other maintainers refused, I would step down and leave the community myself. To me, any other response would be tolerating and accepting neo-nazism, to the point that I would assume and expect outsiders would suspect the entire development team is ok with neo-nazism. None of that is ok in my book.
  - arp242 2y ago
    Again, as I already said, that's the server of a single person. Not "their" (community) server. The post about the "cultural marxism" on Lobsters was the same person, posting on his personal account. And again, as I have already said, I was not impressed by this either. But you can't just extrapolate that to all of "suckless".
    - MrJohz 2y ago
      The unhinged rant about how WW2 was the fault of everyone but Germany, how the AfD aren't the far right, how Holocaust denial should be legalised, and how the far left are trying to destroy Dresden - that is from someone else (metux). Having one far-right loon in your team might just raise some eyebrows. A second, however, shows a pattern.

arp242 2y ago

Like I said, the only "coincidence" is the torch walk thing. This isn't Elon "I am just throwing my heart out, and oh I also built the world's leading platform for antisemitism and retweeted antisemitic posts" Musk we're talking about here.

jdiff 2y ago
It's not the only coincidence, though. One of their hosts is named after Hitler's military headquarters, and one of them has been known to go off about "Cultural Marxism," a very specific term most often used to covertly slip antisemitism into the conversation.
- slithytoves 2y ago
  > One of their hosts is named after Hitler's military headquarters If by "their" you mean a suckless.org host, no, that's not true. A hostname in the outgoing mail headers of one person posting to the mailing list was "wolfsschanze", i.e., a machine on that user's LAN, not a suckless.org server. The person in question was FRIGN. This got attention because he personally repeatedly pestered Lennart Poettering, who noticed that string in the mail headers and called it out on Twitter. https://web.archive.org/web/20190404160024/https://twitter.com/pid_eins/status/1113738764797534208 https://web.archive.org/web/20190404160024/https://twitter.c... Lennart correctly noted that this hostname was one person's laptop, but this morphed in the public consciousness to "a suckless host is named after Hitler's HQ". > one of them has been known to go off about "Cultural Marxism," This person is also FRIGN. Specifically it's a reference to this lobste.rs comment: https://lobste.rs/s/nf3xgg/i_am_leaving_llvm#c_ze5ccy https://lobste.rs/s/nf3xgg/i_am_leaving_llvm#c_ze5ccy I hear these same two things repeated over and over as evidence of nazism within suckless (example, the Wikipedia talk page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Suckless.org https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Suckless.org), but it is one person (who, granted, maintains at least one suckless.org project https://suckless.org/people/FRIGN/ https://suckless.org/people/FRIGN/). I think badly of him as a result, but I don't see any reason to disbelieve the multiple Germans who tell me that torchlit walks are a common German tradition, or to tie it to the Charlottesville march, which was extremely untraditional in the region it took place in.
  - slithytoves 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - kelnos 2y ago
      I didn't downvote you, but I did reply. For the record, though, no one who gives a downvote should ever feel obligated to reply. Writing out a thoughtful, supported disagreement to something takes work, and often the effort required exceeds what anyone might want to expend. This is especially true if a comment feels like it's especially bad-faith-y (though I'm not saying that's the case for your comment). Your comments don't "deserve" anything. You've decided to spend your time making a point on a random web forum, and that's your choice to make. But you do not get to decide that others are required to spend that time as well when agreeing or disagreeing with your words, regardless of whether or not they've used their voting privileges, in either direction.
      - slithytoves 2y ago
        > For the record, though, no one who gives a downvote should ever feel obligated to reply. Writing out a thoughtful, supported disagreement to something takes work, and often the effort required exceeds what anyone might want to expend. Sure, I agree. I counter that it means not that my comments didn't deserve a reply, but that due in part to what you correctly stated, not all comments that deserve replies get them. :)
  - kelnos 2y ago
    The thing that always bothers me about the "it's just one person" defense is... well, what about the other prominent members of the community? How do they feel about this person's beliefs and behavior? I work on Xfce in my spare time with a small group of other developers from around the world, and if I learned that one of them was a neo-nazi, I would immediately call for them to be expelled from the community. If the other maintainers refused, I would step down and leave the community myself. To me, any other response would be tolerating and accepting neo-nazism, to the point that I would assume and expect outsiders would suspect the entire development team is ok with neo-nazism. None of that is ok in my book.
- arp242 2y ago
  Again, as I already said, that's the server of a single person. Not "their" (community) server. The post about the "cultural marxism" on Lobsters was the same person, posting on his personal account. And again, as I have already said, I was not impressed by this either. But you can't just extrapolate that to all of "suckless".
  - MrJohz 2y ago
    The unhinged rant about how WW2 was the fault of everyone but Germany, how the AfD aren't the far right, how Holocaust denial should be legalised, and how the far left are trying to destroy Dresden - that is from someone else (metux). Having one far-right loon in your team might just raise some eyebrows. A second, however, shows a pattern.